Decision Paralysis: Sub $4k Speaker Pair?

[Ropeburn]

The LS60 does not need the app to work. It will need it to make changes like sub crossover or EQ settings. But, it has a remote control and you can always connect other devices to it. So, in 10 years if Airplay, Tidal/Spotify connect, or the built in apps no longer exist you can still connect an eternal device to it and control the source selection and volume with the remote. It does not turn into a big paper weight. This is also true of many smart TVs. A number of them after a few years their built in apps are no long supported. I was at a customers yesterday and said Hulu on their TV app no longer worked. Solution, add a streaming box, Roku, Apple TV, Firestick, etc. They had already done that and I have seen that happen many times with TVs.

It is certainly possible the built in apps will no longer work someday. Maybe there will be a new technology so Airplay and the various Connect service no longer work. But, you will always be able to connect an external device and the speaker will still work. Hopefully, even an old version of the app will let you make changes for EQ, etc.

Legacy compatibility is such a thing. With old stuff, all you need is an old device and the software, and you're set. I have an old laptop for that purpose: Win95 (runs DOS natively) and parallel port and disk drive. Any old device software is archived on the internet and freely available. You can always find cheap replacement for the hardware.

That may no longer be possible with Android and iOS or even newer Windows/MacOS based stuff. It's all getting more and more nerfed and closed and downright jailed. Try getting an APK for your needed app, "sideloading" is going to be made impossible, on iOS you can forget it for years now, etc.

You'd need to be a hacker to make it all work indefinitely, and even then it's often impossible because you just can't get the software. I'm not going to buy anything that relies on an app, for that reason alone.

 

[zonk]

Speaker were usually bought for longer lifespan. The LS60 would be an interesting speaker if it would have the standard connectivity interfaces that a typical active speaker or studio speaker have.
The Topping DX5 II thread shows how finicky software could be.

And these are all no software companies.

 

[Ellebob]

I totally understand the sentiment. I kept an old XP computer around for years to use with our calibration equipment that no longer worked on newer versions of windows. Eventually, we just had to get new calibration software and gear. I am sure this is true as well for someone to keep an old phone, ipad around to still use the app. But, you can use this speaker like a studio monitor or other active speaker. You don't need the app! Just plug a device into one of its digital, analog ports or HDMI ports, use the remote to change source and control volume. It is not as crippled as say a Sonos Five if the Sonos app no longer existed. That would be a paper weight. This speaker would still have use for many years by connecting an external device to it if the internal ones are outdated and no longer work.

In honesty, I would expect that someday. Just like I do with TVs. At somepoint the new versions of these services will require equipment with certain specs to be updated or the companies that make the device no longer support the device and don't continue to update the app. Like I said, this happens with TVs all the time. If the TV didn't have HDMI ports and only had internal apps that TV would be useless if the apps no longer worked. There is a work around just connect a streaming device. That is true of this speaker as well. Connect a streaming device like a Wiim, Sonos, Bluesound, Eversolo, whatever is popular at that time if the internal apps no longer work and the connect functions no longer work.

I do hope it works for a long time for people that use it. I also think it would be smart of Kef to allow one to make settings by logging into the speaker via its IP address to make changes. That way the settings would not soley rely on the app. Just like many of the receivers can do this and you don't have to use the on screen menu. It would also be nice if they made a plain version of this speaker with just an analog input like a studio monitor. Or possibly a passive version that is as nice and sleek looking as this. Their other passives are not as sleek looking. Not counting the blades as that is a different price category.

 

[Snoopy]

@jmdesignz2 well if not positioned good Linton's can give such impression by deep in the uper mids caused by room refractions but not on their own. On their own with ± 1.5 dB deviation they are among more precise one's ever.

Measurements for speaker Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary

www.spinorama.org

Now let's talk about elephant in the room. We hear psy different to flat in room speaker response that's only right for calibration point of 85/88 dB SPL white noise mono/stereo and differ to any other SPL. That's due to time domain difference especially for low end standing waves (low and sub bass) which are slow. So in order to (equal loudness) compensate for it we bust energy (SPL) there.
View attachment 471220
That's why you anyhow need sub's preferably in 2.2 setup in order that compensation to work well especially at lower SPL program loudness. Point of 2.2 is not something as stupid as stereo bass! It's to isolate refractions from spectrum below the knee (105 Hz) for ELC in low bass (by putting crossovers above it) which is problematic especially when amount of compensation (boost) becomes significant. On other point they sum together naturally on their own to physics or as set in material and remain separated above it the same way.
View attachment 471221
Unfortunately you won't get 2.2 of the shelf (integrated as it is in AVR's or room correction standalone solutions) it's do it yourself only for now. That's the truth no one wants to tell you.

This kinda fits to your post and OPs post.

I got the Super Linton with Stands for ~1700 euro (new)
That leaves me with enough budget to stay in that 4000 USD range to add 2 nice SVS subwoofers (like the SB 1000Pro) .

Just waiting for the Onkyo P80 to be released (with Dirac and 2 subwoofer outputs and Dirac ART)

 

[ssashton]

That's a good point about the app. Running an old PC / laptop is one thing, but old phones tend to get bogged down with updates to the point of being unusable. You'd need to make an effort to keep an old phone running the original version of the OS and apps it actually supported well in its hay-day.

I'm happy to have an app for a couple hundred $ piece of gear that can be replaced in 10 years, but not a multi-thousand speaker.

 

[ttimer]

I also think it would be smart of Kef to allow one to make settings by logging into the speaker via its IP address to make changes. That way the settings would not soley rely on the app. Just like many of the receivers can do this and you don't have to use the on screen menu.

Very true. I wouldn't be nearly as critical of the LS60 if it had a local web interface. That provides almost unlimited backwards compatibility, as long as html-capable web browsers are around. Its an especially big miss because the app (like many apps) is just a glorified website.

I use a Yamaha streaming amp with all the app connectivity and stuff, but i know that if all of that breaks, i can just use any web browser to control the device.

 

[Ellebob]

I agree on the app. I like the LS60s for their sound and aesthetics but I do not think their app is anywhere near as polished compared to other platforms. It's useable but not great. However, it is not just Kef but a lot of companies. I feel like many companies don't look at what their competition is doing and try to build a better product. They just try to get something running to say they have the feature. It is a difficult transition for traditional speaker companies to now add the electronics and the interfaces. I think many of these companies will have some growing pains.

 

[ZolaIII]

This kinda fits to your post and OPs post.

I got the Super Linton with Stands for ~1700 euro (new)
That leaves me with enough budget to stay in that 4000 USD range to add 2 nice SVS subwoofers (like the SB 1000Pro) .

Just waiting for the Onkyo P80 to be released (with Dirac and 2 subwoofer outputs and Dirac ART)

Just don't run regarding Onkyo, it's looker and interesting from typology side but wait for performance measurements and user feedback that it all runs well. As much as I remember it should arrive sometime in October.

 

[Snoopy]

Just don't run regarding Onkyo, it's looker and interesting from typology side but wait for performance measurements and user feedback that it all runs well. As much as I remember it should arrive sometime in October.

Yeah definitely waiting for user reviews. Hope Dirac works without bugs and the dual sub out work without issues.

But if everything works as promised with AKM dac and roon this could be a very promising preamp

 

[Jiraya369]

For that price I'd go with a Rythmik L12 or HSU VTF2-Mk5.

why though?