Decision Paralysis: Sub $4k Speaker Pair?

[Spkrdctr]

I just read the review on the Speedwoofer on Audioholics and they loved it. It digs deep and does a great job for not much money. The specs on it are superb for its size and price. Also the specs on the HSU sub are also very good. I couldn't find the specs of the Rythmic L12. So you have at least two subs you can get that will do fantastic. The Speedwoofer garnered an Audioholics "Large" room rating which also says a lot. You really can't go wrong with these subs. For music listening just remember to not play the sub too loud where it calls attention to itself. It seems most people who have issues with a sub not sounding right seems to be it is turned up too high. Very common problem. So, I say buy now and enjoy! Also these subs will pair very well with the BMR speakers. Just reading the reviews makes me want to order some subs...... I must resist the urge!

 

[levimax]

Btw, have never been unhappy with subwoofer integration

Good sub integration is certainly possible but you are an extremely experienced and sophisticated expert with good measurement equipment. For many people without the knowledge and experience and equipment, suboptimal sub integration is quite common.

 

[Cogito]

Do yourself a favour and trry a pair of Aperion Audio's Grandis GR8s. Risk free home trial. Trust me... Just under $3k for the pair and often on sale for around $2.5k. Full range sound, no subwoofer needed.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Neumann KH150

 

[Multicore]

Or should I go for Ascend Audio Sierra LX

Yes. Yes you should. Good people. Good speakers.

 

[MarkS]

You can get away with one subwoofer if you only need to optimize bass for one listening position.

You will need a crossover to high-pass the mains.

Also, some form of room correction is essential to avoid lumpy bass. Lumpy bass in a room that size will happen without it, no matter what speakers and/or subwoofers you get.

 

[RickS]

Good sub integration is certainly possible but you are an extremely experienced and sophisticated expert with good measurement equipment. For many people without the knowledge and experience and equipment, suboptimal sub integration is quite common.

While agree suboptimization is possible, but so is it if one is limited in what speaker placement options you have. I have had subwoofers for over 4 decades now. For about the first half of that time, did not have any measurement equipment.

Ime, I would not do without the bass extension and flexibility offered by subwoofers (notably in a larger room). If you have different music/listening preferences than you may do without them. However, still do not know the OP's prefs, so will see.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I owned the Aerial 10t's for around 17 years. They are exceptional, and you may not need a sub at all since they go down to around 28 hz (-3 db). They will play loud with a powerful enough amp. I had two Bel 1001 Mk 4 monoblocks driving them, and they really did well with the power. They are voiced to be a shade darker than neutral, but they image exceptionally well and they never sound harsh. For $2000, they would be a good choice preowned if in good shape. Michael Kelly is a good person to deal with, and they're located in the US (Wellesley, Mass) so need to ship them abroad if they need servicing.

The Asci A6b, or a used pair of LS 60's, should also be on the short list.

 

[Torin Krell]

What are the speakers you are using now? Although you are new here, your audio component choices suggest that you have some audio experience. So its possible that just adding a subwoofer or preferably a pair may be all you need. Two smaller, but still viable down to at least 30hz, subs offer better integration, have better bass coverage and enable more crossover options (for example options for a higher crossover frequency if run in a stereo configuration). See other sub discussions on this site for details as to why a pair of subs is preferable to just one.

 

[jmdesignz2]

I owned the Aerial 10t's for around 17 years. They are exceptional, and you may not need a sub at all since they go down to around 28 hz (-3 db). They will play loud with a powerful enough amp. I had two Bel 1001 Mk 4 monoblocks driving them, and they really did well with the power. They are voiced to be a shade darker than neutral, but they image exceptionally well and they never sound harsh. For $2000, they would be a good choice preowned if in good shape. Michael Kelly is a good person to deal with, and they're located in the US (Wellesley, Mass) so need to ship them abroad if they need servicing.

The Asci A6b, or a used pair of LS 60's, should also be on the short list.

What did you upgrade to from the Aerials?

I slid that into the poll because I actually have them in my main system and driven by McCormack DNA1 mono blocks. Measured flat to 20hz in my main room.
This speaker shopping is for my other space/room.

 

[jmdesignz2]

What are the speakers you are using now? Although you are new here, your audio component choices suggest that you have some audio experience. So its possible that just adding a subwoofer or preferably a pair may be all you need. Two smaller, but still viable down to at least 30hz, subs offer better integration, have better bass coverage and enable more crossover options (for example options for a higher crossover frequency if run in a stereo configuration). See other sub discussions on this site for details as to why a pair of subs is preferable to just one.

see my response to phoenixdogfan

 

[jmdesignz2]

I have a comparably sized room and rarely give advice without knowing which music you prefer and if you have any decor challenges?

Also, am wondering why you are ranging from bookshelf speakers to large towers? Btw, have never been unhappy with subwoofer integration and, if your music has any serious bass, would plan for at least 2 subwoofers.

I have a wide selection because I am keeping my options open. Most towers seem extremely overpriced for what you get. Two monitors and Two subs and a sophisticated integration system can be had for less in most cases. For example - the mofi sp 888 are $6k (including tax). vs Sierra LX $1700 + (2x$900 subs) $1800 = $3500

 

[ZolaIII]

Bubble bobble...

Polk Audio Reserve R700 Tower Speaker Review

Polk Audio Reserve R700 Tower Speaker

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Get sub's and play with them even those will pass & with out them (2x8" woofers that go down as pair of good 10* sub's). Integration is all about making a deacent crossover and while it's not easiest thing to do with little practice you will menage and with more learn to make it great.

 

[ZolaIII]

For budget "bookshelf's" try with (regular) Wharfedale Linton's (and sub's).

 

[RickS]

I have a wide selection because I am keeping my options open. Most towers seem extremely overpriced for what you get. Two monitors and Two subs and a sophisticated integration system can be had for less in most cases. For example - the mofi sp 888 are $6k (including tax). vs Sierra LX $1700 + (2x$900 subs) $1800 = $3500

Been there (too many times actually). Every time I have spent less on the stereo pair because of smaller size, I end up back with towers. Even of you had to forgo one subwoofer, would go with the best towers you can afford. No need for stands and you generally get more bass. Only way I would skimp on the stereo pair is if I planned to use them as surrounds or in another room at a later time.

As I mentioned, my answer is still a bit dependent on your needs. My best advice is to think about what you like and then seek how to meet your goal given your budget. Seeking a solution before understanding the problem you are solving is where most folks end up with poor results.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

What did you upgrade to from the Aerials?

I slid that into the poll because I actually have them in my main system and driven by McCormack DNA1 mono blocks. Measured flat to 20hz in my main room.
This speaker shopping is for my other space/room.

I downsized and went to KEF LS 50's originally, now LS 50 Metas (which I use with two SVS SB 2000 subs), but I am giving very serious consideration to upgrading to Asci A6b's. The DNA-1 is a perfect match for the 10t's, if you are keeping the Aerial's not need to switch out amps.

 

[pablolie]

Good sub integration is certainly possible but you are an extremely experienced and sophisticated expert with good measurement equipment. For many people without the knowledge and experience and equipment, suboptimal sub integration is quite common.

So is integrating speakers with significant low end into a room. No difference between a sub and those if they dig low enough. It's just thought about differently, assuming the integration is automatic...

 

[pablolie]

I downsized and went to KEF LS 50's originally, now LS 50 Metas (which I use with two SVS SB 2000 subs), but I am giving very serious consideration to upgrading to Asci A6b's. The DNA-1 is a perfect match for the 10t's, if you are keeping the Aerial's not need to switch out amps.

Let us know if you truly hear a relevant difference.

 

[levimax]

So is integrating speakers with significant low end into a room. No difference between a sub and those if they dig low enough. It's just thought about differently, assuming the integration is automatic...

With good speakers with LF extension you have to worry about room modes but trying to integrate sub(s) is much more complicated and in essence you need to become an amateur speaker designer. First you need to determine the location of the subs relative to the mains. Then you need to try to get the timing between the mains and the subs right, including unknown DSP delays in multiple devices. The most under appreciated problem is the difficulty in getting accurate LF measurements in a small room. I recently integrated some subs and I tried DIRAC, REW Wavelet tool, REW Time Alignment tool, REW nearfield and a tape measure, REW and delayed impulse response, and 2 different MSO tools, and all gave different delay values and the differences were is some cases quite large. After timing you then need to decide the crossover frequency, crossover slope, and crossover type (Linear Phase or Minimum Phase). Then you need to set the levels.

Automatic solutions sometimes work OK sometimes not. They are all limited by the difficulty of in room LF measurements. Automatically adding all these variable into your system and getting "better sound" compared to just using EQ on 2 full range speakers is not as reliable and clear cut as the sub manufacturers and automatic integration software manufacturers would have you believe. In addition the automatic solutions are a lot of work with a lot of decisions that have to be made and can in some cases really mess things up.

I personally like playing around with multiple subs and automatic and manual integration tools but for many people and many use cases 2 good full range speakers with a little EQ are the best solution and that includes the best sound quality.

 

[jmdesignz2]

For budget "bookshelf's" try with (regular) Wharfedale Linton's (and sub's).

I think the Lintons are voiced warm/forgiving and measure too inaccurately for my taste?

With good speakers with LF extension you have to worry about room modes but trying to integrate sub(s) is much more complicated and in essence you need to become an amateur speaker designer. First you need to determine the location of the subs relative to the mains. Then you need to try to get the timing between the mains and the subs right, including unknown DSP delays in multiple devices. The most under appreciated problem is the difficulty in getting accurate LF measurements in a small room. I recently integrated some subs and I tried DIRAC, REW Wavelet tool, REW Time Alignment tool, REW nearfield and a tape measure, REW and delayed impulse response, and 2 different MSO tools, and all gave different delay values and the differences were is some cases quite large. After timing you then need to decide the crossover frequency, crossover slope, and crossover type (Linear Phase or Minimum Phase). Then you need to set the levels.

Automatic solutions sometimes work OK sometimes not. They are all limited by the difficulty of in room LF measurements. Automatically adding all these variable into your system and getting "better sound" compared to just using EQ on 2 full range speakers is not as reliable and clear cut as the sub manufacturers and automatic integration software manufacturers would have you believe. In addition the automatic solutions are a lot of work with a lot of decisions that have to be made and can in some cases really mess things up.

I personally like playing around with multiple subs and automatic and manual integration tools but for many people and many use cases 2 good full range speakers with a little EQ are the best solution and that includes the best sound quality.

You do have some good points. Why would a passive tower 3 way with 10" drivers be better than two monitors mounted above (but not touching) two 10" subs? I can see advantages to the sub+monitor arrangement. Many designs out there, Aerial 10T, Watt/Puppy.

Many if not all of the highest end tower speakers have essentially the tweeter in it's own enclosure + midrange/s in there own enclosure, mounted into the front of what is ostensibly the sub cabinet.