• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Deciding on Genelec model: 8030C vs 8331A

farcurse

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
14
Likes
46
I'm considering buying some Genelec speakers, but I'm confused about the sound quality of the higher models like the 8331A compared to the much cheaper 8030C. I've searched this site but can't seem to find a discussion about this. My general question is around the spinorama results: both speakers have similar preference scores (well the 8030C and 8341A), especially when coupled with a subwoofer.

Here are some details of how I intend to use them:
  • Upstream equipment is a MiniDSP DDRC-22D using Dirac Live v3 for room correction. This feeds a miniDSP 2x4 for subwoofer crossover. I like Dirac and don't really need Genelec software for DSP.
  • Subwoofer is a Rythmik F12SE, crossed over at 80 Hz (24 db per octave slope).
  • Genelecs will be replacing Sierra 2-EX speakers. On stands the tweeters will be at ear height.
  • These are for a small room with 1.5 m listening distance. This seems to be in the sweet spot for either Genelec speaker. I only care about the sound at the listening location. Any speakers I'm considering will play loud enough.
Is there something not in the spinorama results that makes the higher end Genelecs sound better in such a configuration? What benefit does the coaxial nature of the Ones confer? Is this just for better driver integration near-field? Is 1.5 m far enough away to eliminate that benefit?

Sorry if this has been covered before and I just missed it. If so, if someone can provide a link to a discussion I'm happy to delete this post. Thanks in advance.

For what it's worth I'm also considering Neumann KH 80 or KH 120 speakers.
 

q3cpma

Major Contributor
Joined
May 22, 2019
Messages
3,060
Likes
4,416
Location
France
In your situation (sub, no need for GLM) I wouldn't consider the 8331A unless you need the coaxial advantages in vertical dispersion. Especially when they both advertise exactly the same midrange max SPL and THD; manual details:
Maximum short term sine wave acoustic output on axis in half space, averaged from 100 Hz to 3 kHz at 1 m: ≥ 104 dB SPL
Harmonic distortion at 85 dB SPL at 1 m on axis:
50…100 Hz < 2%
> 100 H < 0.5%

The 8341A or 8351B would have advantages over their 8x40/8x50 siblings such as 3-way making sense on the distorsion/SPL/directivity side that the 8331A doesn't really have; in truth, I don't really understand why that model exists.
 
OP
F

farcurse

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
14
Likes
46
In your situation (sub, no need for GLM) I wouldn't consider the 8331A unless you need the coaxial advantages in vertical dispersion. Especially when they both advertise exactly the same midrange max SPL and THD; manual details:

Thank you. That's what I suspected. I don't care about the vertical dispersion advantages unless they make the Ones sound better at my listening location.
 

q3cpma

Major Contributor
Joined
May 22, 2019
Messages
3,060
Likes
4,416
Location
France
By the way, this thread I made some time ago may concern you: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120a-or-genelec-8030c.11109/
Especially since now we have a Klippel NFS spinorama for both models (the KH120A one I linked to in that thread was made and posted here by Neumann themselves).

You may not know but the little tweeter shelving in the 8030C spin was shown later in the review thread to be due to an unwanted ~5° vertical offset, both are as flat if you ignore the KH120A's port peak and tweeter resonance near 20 kHz.

Honestly, I'd chose between them based on features (auto standby and class D amps on the 8030C) and look.
 
Last edited:
OP
F

farcurse

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
14
Likes
46
By the way, this thread I made some time ago may concern you: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120a-or-genelec-8030c.11109/
Especially since now we have a Klippel NFS spinorama for both models (the KH120A one I linked to in that thread was made and posted here by Neumann themselves).

You may not know but the little tweeter shelving in the 8030C spin was shown later in the review thread to be due to an unwanted ~5° vertical offset, both are as flat if you ignore the KH120A's port peak and tweeter resonance near 20 kHz.

Honestly, I'd chose between them based on features (auto standby and class D amps on the 8030C) and look.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of the vertical offset in the 8030C measurements. I read through that thread earlier, and came to the conclusion that the Neumann models are pretty competitive. I like the auto standby for the Genelecs. Is the class D amp benefit an efficiency thing? As for looks, neither are as pretty as my Sierra's but I honestly don't care very much about that.
 

radio3

Active Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
125
Likes
58
I'm considering buying some Genelec speakers, but I'm confused about the sound quality of the higher models like the 8331A compared to the much cheaper 8030C. I've searched this site but can't seem to find a discussion about this. My general question is around the spinorama results: both speakers have similar preference scores (well the 8030C and 8341A), especially when coupled with a subwoofer.

Here are some details of how I intend to use them:
  • Upstream equipment is a MiniDSP DDRC-22D using Dirac Live v3 for room correction. This feeds a miniDSP 2x4 for subwoofer crossover. I like Dirac and don't really need Genelec software for DSP.
  • Subwoofer is a Rythmik F12SE, crossed over at 80 Hz (24 db per octave slope).
  • Genelecs will be replacing Sierra 2-EX speakers. On stands the tweeters will be at ear height.
  • These are for a small room with 1.5 m listening distance. This seems to be in the sweet spot for either Genelec speaker. I only care about the sound at the listening location. Any speakers I'm considering will play loud enough.
Is there something not in the spinorama results that makes the higher end Genelecs sound better in such a configuration? What benefit does the coaxial nature of the Ones confer? Is this just for better driver integration near-field? Is 1.5 m far enough away to eliminate that benefit?

Sorry if this has been covered before and I just missed it. If so, if someone can provide a link to a discussion I'm happy to delete this post. Thanks in advance.

For what it's worth I'm also considering Neumann KH 80 or KH 120 speakers.

Point source speaker have much better off axis performance especially vertically. Any time you have multiple drivers you get comb filtering. Point source speakers are the dream and Genelec Ones are about as close as you can get.
 
OP
F

farcurse

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
14
Likes
46
Point source speaker have much better off axis performance especially vertically. Any time you have multiple drivers you get comb filtering. Point source speakers are the dream and Genelec Ones are about as close as you can get.
I'm aware of comb filtering but unclear about its relation to the spinorama results. Does the spinorama average out comb filter effects by measuring in multiple locations? If so, would a point source speaker be preferred over a regular speaker with the same preference score? I think I read in Toole's book that the human ear is not that sensitive to this kind of frequency response anomaly, but I'm no expert. This is kind of what I was getting at in my original question about spinorama and actual preference.
 

¥€$

Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2020
Messages
44
Likes
12
Always try before you buy, if you can. They are approximately the same size, but will sound different. From a techincal perspective the 8331 is superior, but there have been some who didn't like how the 83x1s sounded compared to 80x0s. Also, there's the matter of possible firmware updates to the DSP models. It can't be done without the expensive GLM kit, which to me personally seems questionable. But of course it's no concern if you need the GLM for it's other features.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Messages
14
Likes
1
In your situation (sub, no need for GLM) I wouldn't consider the 8331A unless you need the coaxial advantages in vertical dispersion. Especially when they both advertise exactly the same midrange max SPL and THD; manual details:


The 8341A or 8351B would have advantages over their 8x40/8x50 siblings such as 3-way making sense on the distorsion/SPL/directivity side that the 8331A doesn't really have; in truth, I don't really understand why that model exists.

Sorry could pls elaborate the advantages of the 8341 over 8331 pls? is this just based on SPL capabilities ?
 

q3cpma

Major Contributor
Joined
May 22, 2019
Messages
3,060
Likes
4,416
Location
France
Sorry could pls elaborate the advantages of the 8341 over 8331 pls? is this just based on SPL capabilities ?
Basically, yeah. I really fear for the bass distorsion:
8331-MAX.jpg
 
OP
F

farcurse

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
14
Likes
46
Final update:

I went over to BH Photo to audition studio monitors. They didn't have any of the Genelec Ones in stock but I did hear the 8030c, as well as Neumann KH80 and KH120s. I decided on the 8030c and have had them running now for a couple of months. I also bought a miniDSP SHD to handle DAC, subwoofer splitting, and Dirac room correction functionalities. I've applied full-range correction with a 0.7 db / octave downward slope. These speakers are truly amazing. Everything just sounds right. The soundstage extends beyond the speakers, imaging is precise, and instruments sound natural. Integration with the F12-SE subwoofer is tight with no obvious flaws to my ear (they're crossed over at 90Hz with a 24db / octave slope). The system exceeded my expectations and sounds noticeably better than my much fancier living room setup.

Thanks all for the advice.
 

richard12511

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
4,335
Likes
6,700
I own the 8351b and the 8030c. Ignoring the output and bass extension differences, the only real differences I notice are

8351 is cleaner and thinner sounding in the upper bass and low mids(8030 is fuller? sounding)
8351 images slightly better

I'm guessing the first is due to the lower directivity control and (less so) the lower distortion
I'm guessing the second is due to the coaxial design

Never heard the 8331, but I would expect it to share some of that first advantage, and all of the second.

Those differences aren't large, though, and I do think the 8030 is a better value than the 8351. I think the 8351 is a better value than the 8331, which loses a lot of max output. I think the 8331 is probably the weakest value in The Ones lineup. Notice that max output jumps like 7dB from 8331 to 8341, but only 3dB from 8341 to 8351.

For me it would be a question of value vs absolute performance. How much are you willing to pay for maybe 5% more performance?

*Edit: 8351 also sounds better when I'm wrestling on the ground with my dog :D.
*Edit 2: didn't realize this was an old thread
 

Sancus

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Messages
2,923
Likes
7,616
Location
Canada
*Edit: 8351 also sounds better when I'm wrestling on the ground with my dog :D.

Really an indictment of all speakers that sound different with dog. If you're spending $8K+/pair dammit they should sound the same WITH OR WITHOUT DOG!
 

Pearljam5000

Master Contributor
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
5,125
Likes
5,355
Final update:

I went over to BH Photo to audition studio monitors. They didn't have any of the Genelec Ones in stock but I did hear the 8030c, as well as Neumann KH80 and KH120s. I decided on the 8030c and have had them running now for a couple of months. I also bought a miniDSP SHD to handle DAC, subwoofer splitting, and Dirac room correction functionalities. I've applied full-range correction with a 0.7 db / octave downward slope. These speakers are truly amazing. Everything just sounds right. The soundstage extends beyond the speakers, imaging is precise, and instruments sound natural. Integration with the F12-SE subwoofer is tight with no obvious flaws to my ear (they're crossed over at 90Hz with a 24db / octave slope). The system exceeded my expectations and sounds noticeably better than my much fancier living room setup.

Thanks all for the advice.
I own the 8351b and the 8030c. Ignoring the output and bass extension differences, the only real differences I notice are

8351 is cleaner and thinner sounding in the upper bass and low mids(8030 is fuller? sounding)
8351 images slightly better

I'm guessing the first is due to the lower directivity control and (less so) the lower distortion
I'm guessing the second is due to the coaxial design

Never heard the 8331, but I would expect it to share some of that first advantage, and all of the second.

Those differences aren't large, though, and I do think the 8030 is a better value than the 8351. I think the 8351 is a better value than the 8331, which loses a lot of max output. I think the 8331 is probably the weakest value in The Ones lineup. Notice that max output jumps like 7dB from 8331 to 8341, but only 3dB from 8341 to 8351.

For me it would be a question of value vs absolute performance. How much are you willing to pay for maybe 5% more performance?

*Edit: 8351 also sounds better when I'm wrestling on the ground with my dog :D.
*Edit 2: didn't realize this was an old thread
I own the 8351b and the 8030c. Ignoring the output and bass extension differences, the only real differences I notice are

8351 is cleaner and thinner sounding in the upper bass and low mids(8030 is fuller? sounding)
8351 images slightly better

I'm guessing the first is due to the lower directivity control and (less so) the lower distortion
I'm guessing the second is due to the coaxial design

Never heard the 8331, but I would expect it to share some of that first advantage, and all of the second.

Those differences aren't large, though, and I do think the 8030 is a better value than the 8351. I think the 8351 is a better value than the 8331, which loses a lot of max output. I think the 8331 is probably the weakest value in The Ones lineup. Notice that max output jumps like 7dB from 8331 to 8341, but only 3dB from 8341 to 8351.

For me it would be a question of value vs absolute performance. How much are you willing to pay for maybe 5% more performance?

*Edit: 8351 also sounds better when I'm wrestling on the ground with my dog :D.
*Edit 2: didn't realize this was an old thread
If the 8030C is 95% of 8351B and KH310 is better than 8050B/8030C, then KH310 should be better than 8351B (which it is not, i assume)
I'm confused :rolleyes:
 

richard12511

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
4,335
Likes
6,700
If the 8030C is 95% of 8351B and KH310 is better than 8050B/8030C, then KH310 should be better than 8351B (which it is not, i assume)
I'm confused :rolleyes:

I was ignoring bass and max output differences, and I was also talking about the 8030 vs 8331 with that figure. I also didn't spend very much time thinking about it ;).

8351 is considerably better than the 8030 when taking into account output and extension.
 
OP
F

farcurse

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
14
Likes
46
Really an indictment of all speakers that sound different with dog. If you're spending $8K+/pair dammit they should sound the same WITH OR WITHOUT DOG!

My speakers definitely sound different with the dog. He habitually knocks into the left stand, rotating the speaker just enough to mess up my imaging. Anyone want a nice collie?
 

XpanD

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
146
Likes
171
Location
Netherlands
I own the 8351b and the 8030c. Ignoring the output and bass extension differences, the only real differences I notice are

8351 is cleaner and thinner sounding in the upper bass and low mids(8030 is fuller? sounding)
8351 images slightly better

I'm guessing the first is due to the lower directivity control and (less so) the lower distortion
I'm guessing the second is due to the coaxial design

Never heard the 8331, but I would expect it to share some of that first advantage, and all of the second.

Those differences aren't large, though, and I do think the 8030 is a better value than the 8351. I think the 8351 is a better value than the 8331, which loses a lot of max output. I think the 8331 is probably the weakest value in The Ones lineup. Notice that max output jumps like 7dB from 8331 to 8341, but only 3dB from 8341 to 8351.

For me it would be a question of value vs absolute performance. How much are you willing to pay for maybe 5% more performance?

*Edit: 8351 also sounds better when I'm wrestling on the ground with my dog :D.
*Edit 2: didn't realize this was an old thread

I can echo this coming from my old XTZ Master M2s to my current 8341s. The difference is there, but it seems like those were already pretty solid speakers in their own right. One big difference that I am noticing in my case is that the XTZs harshened up significantly at higher listening levels (and the soundstage would collapse as a result), whereas the 8341s just keep on going. The coaxial benefits are nice as well, as the 8341s maintain their tonality really well no matter what weird position I find myself in.

The Ones are awesome speakers, but I could definitely see the 8030/8330 getting you 80-90% of the way there already. (especially compared to the 8331, given its output limitations and somewhat compromised directivity compared to the bigger models)
 
Last edited:

theshade

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
99
Likes
18
I was ignoring bass and max output differences, and I was also talking about the 8030 vs 8331 with that figure. I also didn't spend very much time thinking about it ;).

8351 is considerably better than the 8030 when taking into account output and extension.
So if more output is not needed and extension is handled by multi sub the differences are rather small? I never hit the limiter on the 8030c. I would like to upgrade to the 8341a or the 8351b and want to find out if it is worth it as prices get crazy expensive for the ones and i have to buy unheard. Thanks!
 

galileon

Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2020
Messages
24
Likes
10
hi i must say 8030C are crazy good for the price - one of the most enjoyable speakers i have had. I have also much more expensive speakers and always when i turn 8030 on i love what they do :)
 
Top Bottom