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Debating my next 'audiophile' bookshelf speaker purchase.

Chromatischism

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Passive bookshelf speakers are inherently inefficient and lack base extension. They will not "fill" a room paired with a monster sub.
I am running passive bookshelf speakers that extend to 33 Hz in my room and they do fill it nicely, with or without the monster subs.

They are not going to meet the price criteria here, but maybe don't paint with such a broad brush.
 

Chromatischism

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ELACS look OK - the DBR62s can be had for AUD $500-600 used... although i've noticed that there's also a three way speaker that might be a really good buy .... the Unify Reference UBR62 stands out actually..
I think you're on the right track with either of those but the UBR62 is out of your price range. If you can overcome that, you may "buy once, cry once".
 
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So i was playing around with Room EQ Whizzard and came up with this plot below - please note that this is with a subwoofer added in to support the bass.

I'm guessing that it's sort of accurate, since the dip at 195hz coincides with the other guy's (Joe n Tell's graph)...

This is fun.
REQ2.jpg



I think you're on the right track with either of those but the UBR62 is out of your price range. If you can overcome that, you may "buy once, cry once".
Yeah for sure, i've heard great things about ELAC's range - the UBR62s are expensive for sure, but i think that they may be worth saving up for...
 

Chromatischism

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So i was playing around with Room EQ Whizzard and came up with this plot below - please note that this is with a subwoofer added in to support the bass.

I'm guessing that it's sort of accurate, since the dip at 195hz coincides with the other guy's (Joe n Tell's graph)...

This is fun.
REQ2.jpg
You're up and running, but it's hard to interpret. Please set the SPL axis to 50-100 dB and the frequency axis to 10-20,000 Hz for full-range measurements, and 10-300 Hz for bass only measurements. Use Variable smoothing.
 
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You're up and running, but it's hard to interpret. Please set the SPL axis to 50-100 dB and the frequency axis to 10-20,000 Hz for full-range measurements, and 10-300 Hz for bass only measurements. Use Variable smoothing.
Yeah for sure - i still need to play around with it, since it has to many modes, settings, etc.
 

ZolaIII

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So you don't have nead for - 2 bass by a looks of things (if you didn't play with equal loudness controls on amp and they stayed at 0), just need to tame it down. Try with treble set to - 4 (on amp) and PEQ at 195 Hz +5 dB with Q (bandwidth) set to 1 or 2 (try both). Continue playing with it until you are satisfied just don't exaggerate with PEQ positive values (let's say +7 dB is max and if you don't have avoid even that much as every +3 is 2x power to the base). You obviously don't need better speakers at least not now (as most folks don't get even that good in room response with much more costly system's). Maybe one day when you better build your own personal preference and towards it regarding selection. :p
 
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You're up and running, but it's hard to interpret. Please set the SPL axis to 50-100 dB and the frequency axis to 10-20,000 Hz for full-range measurements, and 10-300 Hz for bass only measurements. Use Variable smoothing.
Is this better? Looks awfully flat for what it is, except for the 30hz and down, where there's a bump and a recession, then it's 'meh'.. this is on variable smoothing.

meaasurement latest.jpg


So you don't have nead for - 2 bass by a looks of things (if you didn't play with equal loudness controls on amp and they stayed at 0), just need to tame it down. Try with treble set to - 4 (on amp) and PEQ at 195 Hz +5 dB with Q (bandwidth) set to 1 or 2 (try both). Continue playing with it until you are satisfied just don't exaggerate with PEQ positive values (let's say +7 dB is max and if you don't have avoid even that much as every +3 is 2x power to the base). You obviously don't need better speakers at least not now (as most folks don't get even that good in room response with much more costly system's). Maybe one day when you better build your own personal preference and towards it regarding selection. :p
Seems like that little disruption has disappeared in the latest measurement - I really do need to get a UMIK-1, but can't be bothered spending $165 AUD on it...
 

HarmonicTHD

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Is this better? Looks awfully flat for what it is, except for the 30hz and down, where there's a bump and a recession, then it's 'meh'.. this is on variable smoothing.

View attachment 226650


Seems like that little disruption has disappeared in the latest measurement - I really do need to get a UMIK-1, but can't be bothered spending $165 AUD on it...
Your y axis is set to coarse. It is good practice to set it to 50 to 100dB, not -200 to 200dB as in your case. Did you apply VAR smoothing?
 

HarmonicTHD

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Hmmm, I did set it to var smoothing.

Here's a new picture. View attachment 226665
I would EQ away the resonance at about 28Hz and overall apply some tilt of ca -0.5 to -1dB per octave (unless you do near field listening at ca 1m) to it as the highs are overly pronounced and one would expect more a roll off in high frequency for an in room response of an ideal anechoically flat speaker. Maybe add some high pass filter down low to cut out what ever is happening below 10hz. Once done - not too bad then.
 
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NewbieAudiophileExpert

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I would EQ away the resonance at about 28Hz and overall apply some tilt of ca -0.5 to -1dB per octave (unless you do near field listening at ca 1m) to it as the highs are overly pronounced and one would expect more a roll off in high frequency for an in room response of an ideal anechoically flat speaker. Maybe add some high pass filter down low to cut out what ever is happening below 10hz. Once done - not too bad then.
Yeah there's definitely something weird going on with the bass/mid-bass to treble ratio - it might be the microphone that I am using? Currently using one off of amazon, which plugs into a USB DAC type thingy.. the thing is these that speakers are not bright or anything.. they are quite warm...

The thing is even the smallest changes to something like volume or seating position changes everything about the graph lol.

Hmm... back to the drawing board..
 
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So what are you using to measure with?

Edit, you posted at the same time. Your mic is the problem. It's not calibrated to be "flat" if it's made for human voice.
Yeah, i know... hence why i am looking to see if there's some available in the classifieds... if not, i will have to get the special UMIK-1...
 

Chromatischism

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Yeah, i know... hence why i am looking to see if there's some available in the classifieds... if not, i will have to get the special UMIK-1...
Cool. We do have a window into your bass response and in the meantime you got some practice taking measurements.

The reason we like to see 50-100 dB vertical (or 45-105 on higher-res screens) is so the scale matches everyone else's. Then, measure at about 85 dB.

On the horizontal axis, change it to show 10 Hz - 20,000 Hz if you're doing a full-range measurement. When analyzing bass, do 10-300 Hz.
 

ZolaIII

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UMIK - 1 isn't special we used to refer to it because it's affordable price (70~80 US $). Any measurement mic with calibration and ADC - USB will work.
 

HarmonicTHD

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Yeah there's definitely something weird going on with the bass/mid-bass to treble ratio - it might be the microphone that I am using? Currently using one off of amazon, which plugs into a USB DAC type thingy.. the thing is these that speakers are not bright or anything.. they are quite warm...

The thing is even the smallest changes to something like volume or seating position changes everything about the graph lol.

Hmm... back to the drawing board..
Ah. Didn’t realize you are not using a calibrated mic. Yes get one eg UMIK1 as mentioned by other posters already. Otherwise all measurements and the respective conclusions are potentially flawed eg treble etc.
 
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Ah. Didn’t realize you are not using a calibrated mic. Yes get one eg UMIK1 as mentioned by other posters already. Otherwise all measurements and the respective conclusions are potentially flawed eg treble etc.
Yeah, I'm considering purchasing a MiniDSP 2x4 HD with Dirac live and the UMIK-1, and running it via usb or optical as 2.1 - this would give me a better improvement than any speaker that costs less than a couple of thousand IMO.
 

Chromatischism

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Of course that depends on your speakers. EQ can't fix everything, and new speakers will do things EQ can't on its own. But it really isn't a question of which one, but using both together.

In my book, some of the best under $1000/pair are, in no order:

Revel M16
Arendal 1961
Polk R200
ELAC DBR62
 
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Of course that depends on your speakers. EQ can't fix everything, and new speakers will do things EQ can't on its own. But it really isn't a question of which one, but using both together.
Yeah, I'm planning to get some 'new speakers', after a figure out how to EQ and stuff... I find this quite enjoyable as a hobby. THe most likely choice would be the ELACs or Polks...

I've also just figured out how to work with the EQ on REW, and how to increase the bass slopes, etc and create an EQ setting.. but I can't figure out how to implement those settings into my PC, so that I can reap the benefits of the REW analysis, whilst doing some music listening on the PC, for example.
 

Chromatischism

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Yeah, I'm planning to get some 'new speakers', after a figure out how to EQ and stuff... I find this quite enjoyable as a hobby. THe most likely choice would be the ELACs or Polks...

I've also just figured out how to work with the EQ on REW, and how to increase the bass slopes, etc and create an EQ setting.. but I can't figure out how to implement those settings into my PC, so that I can reap the benefits of the REW analysis, whilst doing some music listening on the PC, for example.
You will want to install Equalizer APO, then PEACE, which is a new GUI for it. You can save the filters from REW and import them there to run at startup on your PC.
 
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