Dead Bass Spot in Middle of Square Room

[danielmiessler]

Hey all,

I have a pair of Genelec 8361As and a 15" Genelec Smart Sub in my Studio/Office.

My room is like 12 x 12, and mostly square (minus a door and a closet).

I've been trying to get more bass from various speakers, including these Genelecs in my listening position, but nothing is working. Speaker position. Using GLM. Nothing.

But here's the thing, if I back up so I'm off-center in the room, or leave the room and come in, the bass is strong.

So the speakers are producing bass. I think my being almost dead-center in the 12x12 is causing some sort of cancelation, which isn't the case if I move in any direction.

This seems like physics, which is hard to EQ.

Do I just have to move my desk somehow so that my listening position isn't the dead center of the room?

Thank you.

 

[LesterNZ]

YES ! You must try, then try harder to find your sweet spot. There are no shortcuts dealing with eigentones & anti-nodes.
Good Luck.

 

[dshreter]

The center of the room is especially problematic, so no matter what you will want to change your listening position. This provides a nice summary of the phenomenon.

Listening Room Acoustics: Room Modes & Standing Waves Part I

Dealing with standing waves in small room acoustics is a must for better bass. This can be done with bass traps or multi-sub or a combo of both.

www.audioholics.com

But you should also be looking at acoustic treatment and adding bass traps. You have a very substantial investment you’ve made in speakers, and realistically you can only extract their capabilities with a better behaved room even if you move you listening position. Rooms have many modes in many locations, so you can’t just move away from them without actually taming the modes through treatment by absorbing and diffusing reflections.

 

[Bill Brown]

My unfortunately too square room. You are hearing similar, I'm afraid, just at different frequencies. You are going to have to get your listening position out of the center, I suspect:

 

[Bill Brown]

I wanted to share the link to the above calculator as after using several I find it the most intuitive/easy to use in practical application, but can't. Ugh. Sorry.

Bill

 

[NTK]

I wanted to share the link to the above calculator as after using several I find it the most intuitive/easy to use in practical application, but can't. Ugh. Sorry.

Bill

Looks like it is the Harman room mode calculator (Excel spreadsheet).

https://www.harman.com/documents/Room%20Mode%20Calculator_0.xls

 

[Bill Brown]

Yes! Knew I should have been able to recall it. Thank you.

Bill

 

[sarumbear]

Hey all,

I have a pair of Genelec 8361As and a 15" Genelec Smart Sub in my Studio/Office.

My room is like 12 x 12, and mostly square (minus a door and a closet).

I've been trying to get more bass from various speakers, including these Genelecs in my listening position, but nothing is working. Speaker position. Using GLM. Nothing.

But here's the thing, if I back up so I'm off-center in the room, or leave the room and come in, the bass is strong.

So the speakers are producing bass. I think my being almost dead-center in the 12x12 is causing some sort of cancelation, which isn't the case if I move in any direction.

This seems like physics, which is hard to EQ.

Do I just have to move my desk somehow so that my listening position isn't the dead center of the room?

Thank you.

A square is the worst possible acoustic space. Consider moving to a different room. If you have the money hire a specialist. You already spent a lot on equipment.

 

[andyc56]

Starting at 55:13 in this Todd Welti interview, he discusses results of room simulations involving the variation of room dimensions, subwoofer configurations (both single and multiple), and seating configurations.

For each combination of subwoofer configuration and seating configuration, he creates a two-dimensional plot whose color depicts the seat-to-seat variation (mean spatial variance or MSV) for that configuration as a function of the horizontal room dimensions (with the ceiling height fixed). The plots are explained starting at 59:57. One of the surprising things he discovered was that for certain multiple-sub configurations, the seat-to-seat response variation is a non-problem for square rooms. That explanation also begins at 59:57.

His multi-sub configurations all assume identical subs driven by signals with identical amplitudes and in-phase with one another.

 

[Cbdb2]

A square is the worst possible acoustic space. Consider moving to a different room. If you have the money hire a specialist. You already spent a lot on equipment.

Actualy a cube is the worst. Dont forget the height. And unfortunately 8 ft ceilings dont help with A 12 ft sqr room, both factors of 4.

Bass traps remove low end so you can even out a room but not by adding to the.middle. Try a sb near your seating.

 

[sarumbear]

Actualy a cube is the worst. Dont forget the height. And unfortunately 8 ft ceilings dont help with A 12 ft sqr room, both factors of 4.

How can you compare an area with a volume???

 

[abdo123]

Starting at 55:13 in this Todd Welti interview, he discusses results of room simulations involving the variation of room dimensions, subwoofer configurations (both single and multiple), and seating configurations.

For each combination of subwoofer configuration and seating configuration, he creates a two-dimensional plot whose color depicts the seat-to-seat variation (mean spatial variance or MSV) for that configuration as a function of the horizontal room dimensions (with the ceiling height fixed). The plots are explained starting at 59:57. One of the surprising things he discovered was that for certain multiple-sub configurations, the seat-to-seat response variation is a non-problem for square rooms. That explanation also begins at 59:57.

His multi-sub configurations all assume identical subs driven by signals with identical amplitudes and in-phase with one another.

Thank you for sharing, this was incredibly informative (for square rooms at least) and should be very relevant for the OP.

 

[Cbdb2]

How can you compare an area with a volume???

A room is a volume and sound needs a volume of air. Stand a room on its end and it will still have the same acoustics and will sound the same if the source and listener are in the same place. The room modes depend on the distance between parralel surfaces including the floor/ceiling, there are 3 not 2.