dCS threatens with a 7-figure lawsuit over a review

[mps]

Personally, I see Goldensound's subjective historic "review" of the dCS unit is certainly not balanced. He spends way too long talking about what he didn't like, in nebulous, meaningless language, deperately attempting to sound "authoritative" and doesn't contrast that enough with what he did like. It's almost like the review was edited to add the positives at the front, because he realized he was being way too hard on the product for no good reason.

I also think he may have made his commentry fit the objective measurements.

In short, this entire storm in a teacup has made me less inclined to view any of his content going forward.

As for dCS, the emails from the VP (sales?) seem to me to have been shot off after a few drinks and perhaps a hot head. But it's also clear he felt aggrieved and likely for good reason- they produce a stellar (albeit expensive) range of beautifully finished products that will likely offer their customers a lifetime of enjoyment. That has a price some people are quite willing to pay. I'd take one of those DACs over a million other cheap-and-cheerful ASR chart toppers. It'll still be working perfectly in 25 years, unlike the others.

And to all the people with their faux outrage and statements like "I'll never buy dCS" and "There's another manufacturer off my list"- who are you trying to kid? You were never their customer, or likely to be, in the first place.

I could forgive a drunken email at a real or perceived slight, but sending a letter to his employer saying that they are initiating a 7 figure lawsuit and then publishing a letter that they never threatened a lawsuit. Would you really want to do business with someone that would do that?

 

[mlsstl]

Coverage B of CGL insurance policies is designed to protect against the risk of litigation for exactly this situation (among others).

Just a quick observation -- I've been a commercial insurance broker for over 40 years. While you are correct about the unendorsed ISO CG 00 01 commercial general liability form, the reality is that personal injury coverage (libel, slander, etc.) is excluded when CGL policies are written for media based companies. To get libel and slander coverage for a media company, they'll need a specialty policy which will cost a lot more, and will probably have a sizable deductible as well.

 

[kemmler3D]

What we need is a public registry of companies/corporations who have employed legal tactics/SLAPPs to intimidate and silence reviewers. Details of each incident need to be documented as thoroughly as possible, to support the claim that unjust legal force (or threat thereof) was used. Reviewers can then point out that they will not review said companies' products, and also emphasise that customers may not be able to make informed decisions if only approved reviews are allowed.

Two entries so far are:

• Tekton
• dCS

Any others?

Quite a range of opinions in this thread, from "let's officially blacklist these guys" to "dCS is being disgustingly, unfairly treated because there's a pile-on thread about their lawsuit" ... funny.

 

[mocenigo]

Personally, I see Goldensound's subjective historic "review" of the dCS unit is certainly not balanced. He spends way too long talking about what he didn't like, in nebulous, meaningless language, deperately attempting to sound "authoritative" and doesn't contrast that enough with what he did like. It's almost like the review was edited to add the positives at the front, because he realized he was being way too hard on the product for no good reason.

I also think he may have made his commentry fit the objective measurements.

In short, this entire storm in a teacup has made me less inclined to view any of his content going forward.

As for dCS, the emails from the VP (sales?) seem to me to have been shot off after a few drinks and perhaps a hot head. But it's also clear he felt aggrieved and likely for good reason- they produce a stellar (albeit expensive) range of beautifully finished products that will likely offer their customers a lifetime of enjoyment. That has a price some people are quite willing to pay. I'd take one of those DACs over a million other cheap-and-cheerful ASR chart toppers. It'll still be working perfectly in 25 years, unlike the others.

And to all the people with their faux outrage and statements like "I'll never buy dCS" and "There's another manufacturer off my list"- who are you trying to kid? You were never their customer, or likely to be, in the first place.

The fact that Goldensound may be incompetent is beside the point. He does check intersample clipping though, which is not done here, and is a fundamental aspect of how a DAC operates, so there is no excuse for a site called AudioScienceReview to not start immediately adding it. So he also does at least one thing better than here. And many worse, of course, and he lets his judgement be influenced by biases.

As I said, the fact that Goldensound may be incompetent is beside the point, what happened was corporate bullying.
And I prefer to have equally sounding devices that may last not as long, but I will probably spend less in 25 years buying one every 5 years than a single dCS.
And, yep, they are built like tanks, this must be said loud and clear. They are built to last.

Roberto

 

[AudioJester]

Interesting that its probably the "older generation" (i fit this category lol) sticking up for dCS. Still aspiring to these uber-expensive boutique products, that dont have much of a role now, and the opulance seems ridiculous. However, i guess there will always be a market for luxury items with ultra wealth growth, and those trying to reach it.

I watched a gaming competition a while back where all the young players said they "would buy a Lambo" with the prize money lol. Not sure any would want boutique audio items. Maybe someone from here would have proclaimed - ill buy a dCS!

Like dCS, its defenders may also be slowly fading into irrelevance. Who listens to old men whining about the shortcomings of a modern world?

 

[AaronJ]

beautifully finished products that will likely offer their customers a lifetime of enjoyment.

I think most of their entry level products probably end up in closets due to upgraditis of those who dip their toes into this range of luxury.

 

[ta240]

As for dCS, the emails from the VP (sales?) seem to me to have been shot off after a few drinks and perhaps a hot head. But it's also clear he felt aggrieved and likely for good reason-

I didn't follow this closely enough to know what the emails specifically said, but having worked dealing with customers and comments in the past, I know that when you are proud of a company and the products you sell it can feel like a gut punch when someone disparages either. I can't imagine doing that job today, when people take so much pride in knocking others and their companies and in a world where reviews that don't either trash or exalt a product are largely ignored.
Even then I had my email program set to keep my replies in the outbox until I specifically sent them so I could pause and reread my responses.

And to all the people with their faux outrage and statements like "I'll never buy dCS" and "There's another manufacturer off my list"- who are you trying to kid? You were never their customer, or likely to be, in the first place.

And if they don't do in-depth research on the companies they do order from, including the people that work there and anywhere else money from the purchase may go, then they have no way of knowing that their purchases aren't going to people that make this single person at dCS look like an angel.

 

[ta240]

I think most of their entry level products probably end up in closets due to upgraditis of those who dip their toes into this range of luxury.

It would be interesting to see statistics to know if the high end shoppers keep shopping or just buy what they perceive to be the best and move on. For many this isn't a hobby it is just a purchase like a refrigerator.

 

[fatoldgit]

Sadly, some people want to prove to themselves that they are somehow superior (for instance, better hearing), and other people want a validation of their successful quest for wealth by having exclusive stuff that must be better than what the “populace” can afford.

I am always reminded of this when you hear of some restaurant selling $500 steaks where much of the price is due to the fact its wrapped in edible (real) gold.

I am not sure that ingesting metal improves the culinary experience but it does come with bragging rights (vis a vi the cost).

While not a big steak eater any more, the best steak I ever had was when I was working on an IT job in De Moine, Iowa and the client took me out to a local, relatively upmarket (for De Moine) restaurant.

I commented on this to the client and he alluded to the fact that the steak had been sitting on the rump of a live beast only several hours earlier. That was this restaurant's secret sauce... to literally use the freshest meat available.

Peter

 

[Robin L]

I'd take one of those DACs over a million other cheap-and-cheerful ASR chart toppers. It'll still be working perfectly in 25 years, unlike the others.

I'd rather buy five DACs at a total of $1000 over 25 years than pay $20,000 for a DAC that's functional but outmoded in 25 years. Let's be realistic - the state of the art moves forward very quickly in the digital domain. I've been very happily using my Topping E30 for four years, won't think of replacing it until it (or if) it breaks down. At one time dCS was SOTA, but that's no longer true.

 

[surroundman]

Quite a range of opinions in this thread, from "let's officially blacklist these guys" to "dCS is being disgustingly, unfairly treated because there's a pile-on thread about their lawsuit" ... funny.

The way you word is this is only half-true, possibly even wrong. Here is why. What can be easily observed all over the internet regarding this topic is that we see mostly (one could even say only) the first type of opinions that you mention, like the very one you quote. The second type of opinions that you mention is predominantly a reaction to the first one, not an actual stance. Meaning, if the overwhelmingly more numerous posts (and this begs the question - how educated are those opinions?) that call for the deletion of a company did not exist, there would be no opinions that suggest practicing caution at all. From what I witness, it takes minutes (even lesser than, say, the length of the very first video in this topic) for the masses to form an opinion based only on what their favorite iNfLuEnCeR says and flood the internet. And when some of us here suggest giving it some time in order to form a more educated opinion, we are labeled as supporters of dCS. I do not support any of the sides. For this, I believe, there is hardly a "range" of opinions. Those who do not blindly follow the masses should not be automatically labeled on the other side of the spectrum. We are still allowed, as rare as it seems in this day and age, to NOT have an opinion and NOT necessarily pick a side.

 

[ta240]

Interesting that its probably the "older generation" (i fit this category lol) sticking up for dCS. Still aspiring to these uber-expensive boutique products, that dont have much of a role now, and the opulance seems ridiculous. However, i guess there will always be a market for luxury items with ultra wealth growth, and those trying to reach it.

I watched a gaming competition a while back where all the young players said they "would buy a Lambo" with the prize money lol. Not sure any would want boutique audio items. Maybe someone from here would have proclaimed - ill buy a dCS!

Like dCS, its defenders may also be slowly fading into irrelevance. Who listens to old men whining about the shortcomings of a modern world?

Ironically, those 'old whining men' seem to have more of a 'you do you' attitude than the youth by your description. It seems to be a more modern, possibly internet fueled, need to project ones own needs, wants and desires on others. The classic "why would anyone....?" I don't have to want a product to respect it. And yet most comments here are making assumptions about the mindset of the shoppers and judging them.

Has there ever been a time when the youth would have chosen a boutique audio component over a flashy car?

In a world with half billion dollar yachts, these components, which admittedly I haven't even looked up a price for, might not seem that opulent.

 

[alexanderino]

"let's officially blacklist these guys"

To be clear: blacklist their products from independent reviews because of the companies' litigious track record. The reviewers can point out the list as the reason, the list will become more publicly known, and the end result is a better informed consumer who knows where to spend their money without being misled by marketing. Properly informed customers are integral to a properly functioning market.

 

[ta240]

I'd rather buy five DACs at a total of $1000 over 25 years than pay $20,000 for a DAC that's functional but outmoded in 25 years. Let's be realistic - the state of the art moves forward very quickly in the digital domain. I've been very happily using my Topping E30 for four years, won't think of replacing it until it (or if) it breaks down. At one time dCS was SOTA, but that's no longer true.

But, for someone where $20,000 is proportionately less to them than $1,000 is to you, buying and forgetting may be a better option. Also considering the expensive one likely goes with their decor better. Is there any room for advancement in DACs that would be audible in any way? Audibly, the current SOTA isn't any better than the prior SOTA and I doubt we will see any double blind comparisons showing that anyone here can tell the difference of the SOTA DACs 5 years from now.

 

[ta240]

Properly informed customers are integral to a properly functioning market.

'Properly informed customers' often seems to read as 'people that think like I do'. The current market seems to have products for all types of customers with all types of wants and needs.

I often wonder what annoys people on here more, that the other buying options exist, or that they buyers of that equipment think their system sounds better even though it doesn't measure as well.

 

[Robin L]

But, for someone where $20,000 is proportionately less to them than $1,000 is to you, buying and forgetting may be a better option. Also considering the expensive one likely goes with their decor better. Is there any room for advancement in DACs that would be audible in any way? Audibly, the current SOTA isn't any better than the prior SOTA and I doubt we will see any double blind comparisons showing that anyone here can tell the difference of the SOTA DACs 5 years from now.

Maybe, but the Topping E30 (and its Ilk) are a lot easier to hide. What electronics go better with decor than no electronics? The dCS gear screams "Look at how much I spent on this gear!" The Topping gear can easily be tucked behind something else. Like a flowerpot or a snake plant.

Yes, I know, "different strokes." But I say it's spinach and I say to hell with it.

 

[ta240]

Maybe, but the Topping E30 (and its Ilk) are a lot easier to hide. What electronics go better with decor than no electronics? The dCS gear screams "Look at how much I spent on this gear!" The Topping gear can easily be tucked behind something else. Like a flowerpot or a snake plant.

Yes, I know, "different strokes." But I say it's spinach and I say to hell with it.

Can you imagine a house that costs in the tens of millions of dollars with all the rooms done by a known designer having an audio component stuffed behind a flowerpot?
It is possible for someone to just enjoy the look of a product themselves. Everyone has a different balance of practicality vs price on everything they buy. Sure, just like with cars some people buy the fancy names to impress and some people buy them because they enjoy it.

I for one enjoy living in a world where my reasonably priced JDS Labs DAC, that I can't even remember when I bought, sounds amazing and is well built. But I can't imagine faulting anyone for spending twenty times as much on one that will look nice on the shelf in their fancy room and possibly even last longer.

 

[kemmler3D]

'Properly informed customers' often seems to read as 'people that think like I do'. The current market seems to have products for all types of customers with all types of wants and needs.

I often wonder what annoys people on here more, that the other buying options exist, or that they buyers of that equipment think their system sounds better even though it doesn't measure as well.

While you can read different things into statements like this, it's actually foundational to any economic theory or ideology that relies on "the market" being efficient.

In that sense, the market only functions properly when people know what they're buying. Preferences are a separate consideration. But if manufacturers are allowed to lie and otherwise obfuscate what they're selling, the market is not functioning.

This is actually why independent reviews (or even regulations) in general are so important and are arguably foundational to a healthy economy. If people can't tell good products from bad, bad products will profilterate, wasting everyone's time and resources. In markets like audio, the consequences of that aren't really so bad, but in (say) healthcare or safety equipment, the consequences are steep indeed.

 

[kemmler3D]

We are still allowed, as rare as it seems in this day and age, to NOT have an opinion and NOT necessarily pick a side.

Fair enough. I certainly respect taking the stance that you don't have enough information, knowledge, standing, or even interest to form an opinion on something. It's much better than dashing out the door with pitchfork and torch in hand.

I personally think it's categorically inappropriate for a manufacturer to threaten to sue a reviewer unless the reviewer has clearly, willfully misrepresented their products in a material way. From what I've seen, Goldensound didn't do that, but dCS did threaten to sue, so even though I don't care for Goldensound as a reviewer, I come down on the anti-dCS side. And I say this as someone who comes from the manufacturer side of things.

Still, you are not obliged to agree, disagree, or even care, that's fair.

 

[alexanderino]

'Properly informed customers' often seems to read as 'people that think like I do'.

That is your own interpretation, which (as others have pointed out) is incorrect.

But I can't imagine faulting anyone for spending twenty times as much on one that will look nice on the shelf in their fancy room and possibly even last longer.

We are not faulting the customer, but the companies that mislead them and the general public into believing their product is superior when it's demonstrably not the case. There is a place in the market for Veblen goods and positional goods (Rolex comes to mind), but the customer should not be duped into spending money on them.