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dCS Bartok Review

ahofer

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Sure. I've done double blind tests before. I work on recordings and it's often part of the process when we test ADCs and microphones.

That's great, I'd love to see you do it.

If you get one to Amir for measurements, and he finds a much cheaper DAC with similar measurements, I will put up $10,000 to the charity of your choice* against your $1k to Amir that you can't tell the difference in a blind, level-matched test, 9/10 trials at normal listening volumes. This happens in Seattle with a reference system agreed upon by you and Amir. Or another location Amir agrees to.

*charity must be accepted by the Vanguard Charitable Endowment (my donor-advised fund). Any legit domestic 501c3 will work.
 

Tks

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Sure. I've done double blind tests before. I work on recordings and it's often part of the process when we test ADCs and microphones.

I'd love to hear any followup to such undertaking. Come to think of it, most of us here value this particular part moreso than any other method of corroborating claims.

Speaking of ADC's and microphones, you have any of those blind tests published? That would be mega interesting. (I feel microphones and ADC's are ripe for far more improvement than things like DACs for example).
 

BDWoody

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Sure. I've done double blind tests before. I work on recordings and it's often part of the process when we test ADCs and microphones.

So, to put a sharper point on it then...

How much would you like to bet that with a properly matched DBT between this device and the apple dongle, or any other competently measuring DAC... you would be able to tell the difference? You can even choose your own music. I'm not really joking...there are several standing offers. Sounds like you could make some easy money...

'Reviews' like that one are worse than worthless, as there are people who think they are reading something beyond marketing copy and will spend money in an effort to hear a difference that doesn't exist other than through our biases.

If you could actually demonstrate these differences, you would be the first. Ever.
 

Tks

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So, to put a sharper point on it then...

How much would you like to bet that with a properly matched DBT between this device and the apple dongle, or any other competently measuring DAC... you would be able to tell the difference? You can even choose your own music. I'm not really joking...there are several standing offers. Sounds like you could make some easy money...

'Reviews' like that one are worse than worthless, as there are people who think they are reading something beyond marketing copy and will spend money in an effort to hear a difference that doesn't exist other than through our biases.

If you could actually demonstrate these differences, you would be the first. Ever.

Meh I wouldn't say reviews like his are worthless, that's a bit silly. I got an RME DAC not for the measurements, but for every other factor, build, design, user experience, UI, connectivity etc..

Also most reviews today come with nice shots of the product in question :] those are nice to see sometimes.
 

ahofer

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Meh I wouldn't say reviews like his are worthless, that's a bit silly. I got an RME DAC not for the measurements, but for every other factor, build, design, user experience, UI, connectivity etc..

Also most reviews today come with nice shots of the product in question :] those are nice to see sometimes.
Just ordered an RME. Looking forward to trying the DSP, dynamic loudness.
 

Blumlein 88

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snip.....
Speaking of ADC's and microphones, you have any of those blind tests published? That would be mega interesting. (I feel microphones and ADC's are ripe for far more improvement than things like DACs for example).

I really think ADC's are a solved problem. Lots of pro recording people think so too. I'm sure with some measurements we'd find some surprises.

Microphones are tough though. You have to worry about directionality like in speakers. Yet, many recording mikes are valued for their deviations from neutrality. And there are many more issues too.

Maybe this will be interesting (and probably overwhelming).
https://www.sweetwater.com/feature/vocal-mic-shootout/

I downloaded the full files and scrambled the names. Listened over many sessions comparing 4 at a time. Picking my best choice for female and male voice. Didn't include the tracks with music. And obviously there is no reference to know if my preferred picks were more accurate or not. The unfortunate conclusion was my top 2 picks were among the most expensive available. Ouch! Where is the pearl among the swine? The giant killer?

You might find some of the discussion here interesting.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/the...m_medium=partner&utm_campaign=micshootout2017


Here is a similar thing with $60k worth of ribbon mikes. Differences are more obvious and I think that is because FR varies much more with ribbons.
http://recordinghacks.com/2011/08/16/ribbon-shootout-voiceover/

Oh and this can be a tedious and terrible methodology for doing such a thing.
 

BDWoody

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Meh I wouldn't say reviews like his are worthless, that's a bit silly. I got an RME DAC not for the measurements, but for every other factor, build, design, user experience, UI, connectivity etc..

Also most reviews today come with nice shots of the product in question :] those are nice to see sometimes.

As most of us here buy for features beyond some threshold measurements, I get that... I'm guessing you knew enough to not be tempted by the promises of better sound from the RME...?

Problem is many don't, and aren't going to buy it for the features... they are buying with the full expectation of better sound...of the magic...like the reviewer goes on about.



Feature reviews are great...and I like nice pictures too after all...
 

bratboy

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You lost me at the word "subjective"... :rolleyes:

Let me see if I can help find you. Subjective = Opinion. I guess you like to read reviews that are purely objective, and possess zero thoughts, opinions or preferences. Nice.

:facepalm:
 

ahofer

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From your review: "My current reference is the PS Audio DirectStream DAC"

Really? After what was discovered here about that thing's poor performance, we're supposed to take you seriously? :rolleyes:

No wonder the much-cleaner dcs was such an improvement.
 

amirm

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Let me see if I can help find you. Subjective = Opinion. I guess you like to read reviews that are purely objective, and possess zero thoughts, opinions or preferences. Nice.

:facepalm:
Subjective reviews are great. All we ask is that they be reliable. My late grandfather in law used to hate cheese. All we had to do to get him to eat it was by not telling him the dish had cheese! He would rave about my wife's chocolate cheesecake for example. :)
 

BillG

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Let me see if I can help find you. Subjective = Opinion. I guess you like to read reviews that are purely objective, and possess zero thoughts, opinions or preferences. Nice.

:facepalm:

Oh, dear god! Of all the things you could have picked to criticize someone else for, you had to pick that?

Just so that we're clear, I don't value the purely subjective opinions of others, and that would include your idiotic critique of me... :p
 

bratboy

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Oh, dear god! Of all the things you could have picked to criticize someone else for, you had to pick that?

Just so that we're clear, I don't value the purely subjective opinions of others, and that would include your idiotic critique of me... :p

What a fucking dope you are.
 

ShiZo

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" I ran a Synergistic Research Galileo USB cable"

Sorry, I stopped reading there. Do you know where you posting? Not the right place to advertise for the biggest rip offs in all of audio, aside from white van speakers.

They literally come with little tuning modules, peices of metal that slip into a piece of the cable (beyond strange) to change the sound signature
 
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ahofer

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What a fucking dope you are.

low information+nasty ad hominem. You are the third person to hit the “ignore” bingo this weekend.
 

ShiZo

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What sucks is the dcs bartok is probably a great device. I bet they would hate to have it associated with subjectivists. Their engineers even said not a thing was done that wasn't justified for measurements.
 

AudioSceptic

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Hey folks!

I wrote a subjective review on the dCS Bartok that I thought some here would find interesting.

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/10/13/dcs-bartok-dac-part-one-review/

Let me know if you have any questions!
From there
I started reviewing DACs in the headphone space many years ago and I’ve slowly worked my way up the food chain. My current reference is the PS Audio DirectStream DAC (reviewed here) and it’s companion Memory Player (reviewed here). I was curious what a more-than-twice-as-expensive (compared to my DirectStream DAC) component would sound like, and admittedly, I was a bit skeptical that I would get at-least-twice-the-sound of the superb-sounding PS Audio product. At $13.5k for the DAC and another $1.5k for the headphone amp version, dCS had its work cut out for it.
You're not from around these parts, are you? ;)
 

LTig

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" I ran a Synergistic Research Galileo USB cable"

Sorry, I stopped reading there. Do you know where you posting? Not the right place to advertise for the biggest rip offs in all of audio, aside from white van speakers.

They literally come with little tuning modules, peices of metal that slip into a piece of the cable (beyond strange) to change the sound signature
I couldn't believe it but you're right :facepalm:
 
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