dbx DriveRack VENU360 Review (audio processor)

[LTig]

That may work. I was just concerned about how well an adapter would perform (I have no idea) given there are high-end adapters out there such as this one (for example): MUTEC MC-1.1+. Maybe it's just snake oil - I know Roger has done a great job of dispelling a lot of high-end myths but I don't know if a simple adapter is good enough (I never looked into it). Or maybe the MUTEC adapter I linked to also serves some other purpose not needed in our particular situation.

If dbx states that the AES input works with SPDIF signals you just need a simple mechanical adapter. AES is balanced while SPDIF is not, and AES acepts higher input level, but as long as the sensitivity of the AES input is good enough (0.2V AFAIK) it can detect SPDIF signals [1]. The protocol is identical with the exception of a few bits (copy control and deemphasis come to mind) which are not used here.

 

[Falcon91Wolvrn03]

If dbx states that the AES input works with SPDIF signals you just need a simple mechanical adapter.

There is no mention at all of S/PDIF at all in the dbx manual. I don't know enough about this to comment further.

 

[Farenheit]

I connect the SPDIF output of my Yamaha WXC50 to the DBX DRIVERACK VENU360 with a simple audio cable without any problem.

 

[Falcon91Wolvrn03]

I connect the SPDIF output of my Yamaha WXC50 to the DBX DRIVERACK VENU360 with a simple audio cable without any problem.

But the VENU360 doesn't have a S/PDIF input? Do you also use an adapter/converter?

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

That may work. I was just concerned about how well an adapter would perform (I have no idea) given there are high-end adapters out there such as this one (for example): MUTEC MC-1.1+. Maybe it's just snake oil - I know Roger has done a great job of dispelling a lot of high-end myths but I don't know if a simple adapter is good enough (I never looked into it). Or maybe the MUTEC adapter I linked to also serves some other purpose not needed in our particular situation.

I didn’t post the rest of his email

“You will need to specify the correct gender for the adaptor. In this case, you will want a male XLR to a female RCA. These adaptors are cheap (less than $5) and readily available. “

 

[Farenheit]

But the VENU360 doesn't have a S/PDIF input? Do you also use an

 

[Neddy]

The Venu works fine from S/PDIF via the cables above.

However, that standard (AES/SPDIF) does NOT include volume control, so you'd need to control that from your source player (PC - ah, AVR?).

I've been running the Venu AES ins from OktoDAC8 AES outputs (Ch1&2 only) also 'in the theory' that it skips the AD conversion, but I'm not at all sure of that, esp given the poor measurements Amir got using that configuration.
And neither the manual, nor several Crown techs I asked, were 100% certain that AES inputs bypassed the AD part of the DSP conversion, either.

So, shortly I'll be reconfiguring my Venu back to all analog inputs (I use it for bi-amping the mains and subwoofer control) to see if I can hear any difference. I'll report back on results/conclusions.

I would much prefer to control volume via the tiny remote on the OktoDAC than my PC, which is notorious for 'goofing' and popping things to Full on occasion! Very painful to the ears.

Make no mistake - I LOVE The Venu360 - features, remotes (pick a platform!), capabilities, ease of use, are all SUPERB.
But - to at least get to part of your original question - so far, each major upgrade I've made, to Okto DAC from Oppo103, and from Bryston 3B amp to Hypex 252 - have been VERY noticeable and audible improvements.

So, if I can 'find' the funds, I will most likely replace the Venu 2x4 bi-amp routing & (crossover & DSP & room correction) with a MiniDSP Flex in order to keep the distortion/SN figures as low as possible in the chain. At this point the Venu - in the middle of my signal chain - is by far the weakest link.
(Weirdly, I will probably keep the Venu for use with my sub-woofer, it's just so handy.)

Stay tuned?

 

[Falcon91Wolvrn03]

However, that standard (AES/SPDIF) does NOT include volume control, so you'd need to control that from your source player (PC - ah, AVR?).

Ah ok. Sorry for posting to different threads making my thoughts confusing, but as I said here, I was really just looking for a digital volume controller for my digital signal. The miniDSP SHD Studio did that for me.

In summary, HDMI goes into my Marantz 8805 AVP from various sources, then into the Audiopraise VanityPro for digital audio extraction, then into the SHD Studio for volume control, then into the VENU360 for crossover and RCS, and finally into my amps and speakers.

I guess I was wondering if there was a better method for digital volume control than the SHD Studio, which may have been overkill?

Edit: The VENU360 requires AES for digital audio in and it has no volume control.

 

[Falcon91Wolvrn03]

So the question to anyone here is whether there's been any discussion about ABX testing between top rated DACs? Can people really hear a difference, or can they just see it on an oscilloscope (apologies if I missed that thread)?

I'm wondering if the VENU360's D/A conversion (while not perfect as shown by the test in this thread) is even audible compared to higher scoring DACs or not.

We are at the point now where there is literally no difference in audible performance between a $100 DAC and a $10,000 DAC. Their errors are so much smaller than the human threshold of hearing that debating it is pretty silly at this point.

Win's first reply was the only reply to my question above. Though I would like a top-rated DAC as determined by tests on this site, I think in the case of the VENU360, the advantages of its digital crossover (needed for my Model 10 speakers) and its Room Correction System (good for any state-of-the-art loudspeaker system) seem to outweigh the difference in DAC quality, which may not even be audible.

Edit: A better way to ask the question is if you'd get better sound with the VENU360's RCS using the VENU360's DAC, or if you'd get better sound out of a top-rated DAC without RCS? (that's what I should have asked in the first place)

I've recently burned all my CDs to a Roon Nucleus+, so I don't use my SA-10 to play CDs. I'm going to sell it but am willing to ship it to Audio Science Review and back at my cost if anyone here is interested in having the SA-10's DAC tested (and if Audio Science Review is interested in testing it).

Is there any interest in having the DAC of the Marantz SA-10 tested?

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Win's first reply was the only reply to my question above. Though I would like a top-rated DAC as determined by tests on this site, I think in the case of the VENU360, the advantages of its digital crossover (needed for my Model 10 speakers) and its Room Correction System (good for any state-of-the-art loudspeaker system) seem to outweigh the difference in DAC quality, which may not even be audible.

Edit: A better way to ask the question is if you'd get better sound with the VENU360's RCS using the VENU360's DAC, or if you'd get better sound out of a top-rated DAC without RCS? (that's what I should have asked in the first place)

Is there any interest in having the DAC of the Marantz SA-10 tested?

My opinion is that whilst the Venu’s dac doesn’t seem to be anywhere near the top of the list, it is easily “good enough”. By that I mean, you would not tell it apart from better measuring DACs in a proper DBT.

If you’d like to own a better measuring device, one thing I considered was the “full” SHD rather than the “studio”. My understanding is that it can replace the venu (it can do crossovers) and also act as a preamp (with analog inputs if required) as well as room correction via Dirac.

 

[Falcon91Wolvrn03]

If you’d like to own a better measuring device, one thing I considered was the “full” SHD rather than the “studio”. My understanding is that it can replace the venu (it can do crossovers) and also act as a preamp (with analog inputs if required) as well as room correction via Dirac.

You may be right, though my VENU360 was preprogrammed for the Model 10e speakers (crossovers, etc), and I'm probably not skilled enough to do all the setup myself on the miniDSP SHD or SHD Studio.

 

[Sukram]

That may work. I was just concerned about how well an adapter would perform (I have no idea) given there are high-end adapters out there such as this one (for example): MUTEC MC-1.1+. Maybe it's just snake oil - I know Roger has done a great job of dispelling a lot of high-end myths but I don't know if a simple adapter is good enough (I never looked into it). Or maybe the MUTEC adapter I linked to also serves some other purpose not needed in our particular situation.

Dirac sucks a lot of power of the amp

 

[Tangband]

This two pictures shows the internal of pa2 and 360 venue.

As one can see - the cheaper pa2 uses a linear power supply with probably less HF noise than the switch mode supply in the venu360.

DBX PA2 vs DBX Venu360 | New Line Forum

The double price of Venu360 should have a reason though - is there anybody that have both of this units and has done comparisons in sound ? Is the venu360 using dithering in the digital signal as amirm suggested it might earlier, and is this the reason for the worse noise measurements, but maybe a better sound ?

dbx DriveRack VENU360 Review (audio processor)

Very interesting and anticipated review. This is where ASR really shines, as we don't have the ability to test this stuff ourselves in many cases. I have a triamped system with JBL 3 way L200's with 2216Nd1 woofers and 077 tweeters. I have been running the MiniDSP 4x10HD for a few years now...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Line #53 :

Amir, did you test the ADC part ?
And what's this FFT (and Jitter has pretty much the same symptom) ? It's like a bump from -120 to -102, do you think it can be a bug ? Never saw something like that

”It seems to be some kind of noise modulation. Or additive dither. Hard to say given how convoluted the pipeline in this device is.”

 

[LTig]

Is the venu360 using dithering in the digital signal as amirm suggested it might earlier, and is this the reason for the worse noise measurements, but maybe a better sound ?

Dithering reduces (prevents) distortion hence it should appear as such in the measurements.

 

[Tangband]

Dithering reduces (prevents) distortion hence it should appear as such in the measurements.

Might it be to much dithering in venu360 ? Dithering is applied noise to mask the distortion.

 

[LTig]

Might it be to much dithering in venu360 ? Dithering is applied noise to mask the distortion.

I don’t think so. More noise does not effect sound as long as it is not so high that it detracts from the musical experience - at least that's how I see it.

 

[Pabloaguas]

But the VENU360 doesn't have a S/PDIF input? Do you also use an adapter/converter?

I use a Canare BCJ-XP-TRA Impedance Transformer to go from the 75ohm SPDIF to the 110 ohm AES...

 

[Pabloaguas]

Ok... well, here it goes... the great micro-capacitor extraction...

I'm just going off of what was posted in this forum... I have no real way of measuring the before and after... but I do have the 'newer' model in question. I purchased it new for half-off $ from ProAudioStar so maybe this fact would indicate it is a 'defective' model?

In looking at ObjectAudio's photo it seems like C116-127 were removed but C102-112 were left?

Has anyone else done the mod?

Ok, just a little nervous. But I guess it can't hurt. Will post again with (unmeasured) results.

Here are the pictures of my newest VENU360 with the mod change I did.
To improve the measurements performance I had to remove all the capacitors showing in the picture.
Two capacitors for each DAC output ( C117,C102,C119,C104,C121,C106,C123,C108,C125,C110,C127,C112 ).
These capacitors are part of the DAC output low pass circuit and theoretically will influence the total DAC low pass filtering section.
As I don't have the schematic, but from analyzing the DAC output stage it looks like there are additional filtering.
I didn't notice any issues removing them only great measurement improvement.
I find the issue using my UPL to track the distortion changes from the DAC output the same way you use a scope. This is one of the great features of the UPL that you can use it in this way.
I cannot explain yet why removing it help, the only explanation that maybe it is a wrong value.
This change work for my newest unit so for all looking to implement it I will suggest the following steps:
1. Check your unit current measurement performance , if you don't have access to Audio analyzer , a good 24 bit sound card with software like Arta I think will be sufficient.
2. If your unit is one with bad measurements, I will first try to remove two capacitors from one stage only to see if the measurements improved , with the assumption that if it doesn't work for you will be able to solder them back.
3. If you see the improvement without any issues go ahead and remove the rest.

You can see few changes between the units the older good unit has shielded power supply with PCB board no 5034682-E.
The newest unit with the issue has unshielded power supply with board no 5060604_B




View attachment 124993
View attachment 124994

 

[SIY]

Dithering is applied noise to mask the distortion.

No, that is a severe misunderstanding of dither.

 

[Tangband]

No, that is a severe misunderstanding of dither.

Enlighten me then ( maybe Im just lost in translation )