DBX Driverack Venu 360 - initial impressions

[Jazzman53]

I recently replaced the Behringer DEQ2496 EQ & DCX2496 crossover, driving my homebuilt hybrid electrostats & Ripole subs, with a DBX Driverack Venu 360 crossover/EQ. I chose the Venu 360 over less expensive PA2, only because I needed the Venu's digital inputs to accept the digital out from my Logitech Transporter.

This will not be an in-depth, dispassionate, or measurement based review. I still have a lot to learn about the Venu 360, and the Behringers are all I know to compare it to. Below are my initial impressions:

Behringers are often frowned upon by audiophiles, but they served me well for many years and I found them to be dead quiet and crystal clear. The DBX may spec a little better but I rate them equally for inaudible noise floor.

The DBX’s wireless remote user interface is hands-down better than the Behringers’ front-panel intefaces. To be fair; the Behringer crossover does have a computer interface, but I couldn’t use it because its outdated serial port won’t connect to my laptop, or any laptop newer than 10 years old.

With the DBX, all functions are wirelessly controllable using a smart phone/tablet app, and I use my Ipad. The wizards make setup easy, and the control screens are intuitive and easy to use.

The Behringer’s auto-EQ is comparatively tedious, slow and cumbersome, with pink noise to endure-- downright primitive compared to the slick DBX auto-EQ.

The DBX auto-EQ is easy and fast. There’s no loud, obnoxious pink noise-- just a few rapid (2-second) frequency sweeps from (3) mic positions, and the unit instantly overlays about eight parametric EQ’s to smooth out the nasties. The resulting sound is balanced and wonderful right off the bat.

As we know; whenever you experiment and change crossover points or filter slopes, you must then re-EQ the system. With the DBX, I find it much easier to experiment and fine tune the crossover because the auto-EQ is so fast that I don’t mind re-doing it. This is a real time saver for fine tuning the system.

Whereas the Behringer DCX2496 can automatically time-align the speaker drivers, the Venu 360 has only manually adjustable time-delays, which I used to time-align the drivers the old-school way, playing a test tone at the crossover frequencies and adjusting the delays until I found the constructive interference peaks and on the RTA (actually; I inverted the speaker phasing and adjusted the delays to find the negative/destructive interference peaks/dips -- either method works).

After time-aligning the drivers, and auto-EQ'ing the system with the DBX, I was playing an old song by the Supremes, and I could hear in the recording, the studio reverb applied to the voices. Just for fun, I turned off the time-delays, and Diana Ross’s voice then became one-dimensional and I could no longer discern the reverb. But when I turned the delays back on, Ross’s voice came back to life—the difference was amazing, and attests to the effect of even a few tenths of a millisecond of phasing error.

And then I discovered the sub harmonic synthesizer and, WOW! This feature should be used judiciously—probably not at all on modern recordings, but it miraculously enhances the bass on older recordings where the bass was anemic.

LOVE this DBX Venu 360!

 

[win]

all functions are wirelessly controllable using a smart phone/tablet app

note there is no phone app, it only works on tablet.

DBX auto-EQ is easy and fast. There’s no loud, obnoxious pink noise-- just a few rapid (2-second) frequency sweeps from (3) mic positions, and the unit instantly overlays about eight parametric EQ’s to smooth out the nasties. The resulting sound is balanced and wonderful right off the bat.

Glad you had success with it. I found that it was doing too much stuff above the schroeder frequency. It would have weird cuts and boosts around the human voice frequencies, and would stand out like a sore thumb when listening to TV where voices would take a backseat in the mix.

please let me know if you figure out how to make the 'wizard' button not be bright red all the time!

p.s. for anyone looking to buy one - I'm not sure why but these are all over eBay and even online retailers used, for half price (~$400). That's how I bought mine, although it does have a dead fly behind the display screen. It's a bug, not a feature.

https://imgur.com/Ba3oVFv

p.p.s. I got a lot of benefit by individually tuning each speaker/channel before doing the autoeq.

 

[Hipper]

I use a Behringer DEQ2496 for manual PEQ and GEQ. It sits between my CD Transport and DAC so just works in digital. I measure with REW and apply the filters to the Behringer. I found this gave better listening results then its RTA measuring system. I don't currently need electronic crossovers but I'm looking to the future when this may come.

The DBX I understand has 12 PEQs compared to the Behringers 10 which I see as a plus. It seems it has the same possibilities to manually input filters in the PEQ and GEQ.

I would be interested to know the following:

• if there are any views on the DBX's DAC
• if it has some sort of Global Gain Control so that if, say one adds +10dB in a PEQ you can turn the whole volume down by -10dB to prevent clipping (as you can in the Behringer). I've read the manual but it's not clear to me if this is possible.

 

[win]

The DBX I understand has 12 PEQs compared to the Behringers 10 which I see as a plus. It seems it has the same possibilities to manually input filters in the PEQ and GEQ.

It has three different 'stages' you can do the PEQ.

1. Input mix. This can use either 10 (12?) bands of PEQ, or a GEQ. This is where you would typically put your house/preferred curve.

2. Speaker/output mix. This uses PEQ, I think 10 bands, and is set per output channel. E.g., I have 4 of these, one for each main and two subs. So that's up to 6 distinct PEQs for this output mix stage. (Since it's a 3x6 crossover). I found this particularly useful because I have an asymmetric setup. Also helps with subs because you can control phase angle independently and continuously - although technically this is done in the crossover section, not in the PEQ, obviously.

3. "mid" or autoeq stage. This is the unit's auto generated roomEQ PEQ result. It has 14 bands, 4 of which persist after subsequent roomEQ sessions. This will simply sum with the input mix PEQ. The unit likes to tune this from 0-20,000khz, which I did not like. But you can easily delete the PEQ bands from roomEQ that you don't want.

if there are any views on the DBX's DAC

I'd love to see its actual tested measurements here, but the specs would point to it being transparent, but not SOTA

if it has some sort of Global Gain Control so that if, say one adds +10dB in a PEQ you can turn the whole volume down by -10dB to prevent clipping (as you can in the Behringer). I've read the manual but it's not clear to me if this is possible.

You can trim down the input mix. You could also just use negative PEQ gain, instead of boosts. (I.e. boosting bass is the same thing as lowering treble)

 

[Jazzman53]

I use a Behringer DEQ2496 for manual PEQ and GEQ. It sits between my CD Transport and DAC so just works in digital. I measure with REW and apply the filters to the Behringer. I found this gave better listening results then its RTA measuring system. I don't currently need electronic crossovers but I'm looking to the future when this may come.

The DBX I understand has 12 PEQs compared to the Behringers 10 which I see as a plus. It seems it has the same possibilities to manually input filters in the PEQ and GEQ.

I would be interested to know the following:

• if there are any views on the DBX's DAC
• if it has some sort of Global Gain Control so that if, say one adds +10dB in a PEQ you can turn the whole volume down by -10dB to prevent clipping (as you can in the Behringer). I've read the manual but it's not clear to me if this is possible.

I can't measure it its DAC or do a side-by-side sound comparison with any of the high-end DAC's on the market. I will only say that it's dead quiet, I can't discern that it has any sound of its own apart from the source, and my system with the DBX sounds better than ever.

I don't see a single/global gain control in my DBX V360 but it doesn't really need one, as the crossover bands, slopes and gains are graphically displayed side-by-side on the iPad control touch screen, and it's quite easy to pull the gains up or down to match or offset their levels precisely.

 

[Tatteredmidnight]

I’ve been interested in these loudspeaker management systems for a while. I almost pulled the trigger on a great bundle deal for the PA2 and measurement mic a few months ago, but I was just closing on my new house and didn’t want to over extend my resources (I slightly regret this).

It sounds like you are going in to the DBX unit via AES, and you are using it as your primary DAC? It’s hard to tell from the specs, can you individually EQ the sub(s) with the output EQ? This seems like a very cool device (if I had AES out from my TV especially). Are you using the Logitech Transporter for volume control?

As for the Behringer units, what made you choose to go with the the two units together, it seems like the DCX2496 has quite a bit of EQ functionality built in. What was it lacking that made the addition of the DEQ2496 worthwhile?

Finally, thank you for posting this, I find these personal experience, usability, and implementation impressions very helpful. Technical reviews are very valuable, but they don’t always give a full picture of how someone might actually use the equipment in their day to day life, and how that experience measures up (pun intended).

 

[Neddy]

Well done! I've been using a 360 for more than 3 years, and couldn't be happier with it.
I'm using mine with AES Ch1&2, plus analog Ch3 (4?) for subs, but also ran all analog Ins before that.

- "note there is no phone app, it only works on tablet. " Not true - there are android as well as PC versions, Mac and IOS.
I have it running on Win7 PC, Win10 NUC, Win10 tablet, Android phone, and (!) even an ancient KindleHD. All work just fine.
- How to turn off the red wizard light. No idea, but agree (also the display backlighting...but I'm pretty sure that can be turned off in (physical) menu settings.)
- No idea why they are generally sold used for 50% off new, but that's pretty typical for electronics?
OTOH, I'd be suspicious of any selling for under $400. I bought mine used - seller stated it had recently been back to Harman for service, so I called them, and they actually looked up the service ticket for me!
Turned out it was in for a loose internal power connection (where it plugs into the PCB), apparently a problem for some of their production runs.
Harman tech (phone) support is generally Excellent; I've called twice with setup questions - great conversations both times (I found the configuration setup process a bit confusing.)
- They initially released variants with Dante and/or ? Blulink. Their tech told me they didn't sell well, so they dropped them. I'll always wonder what I left off the table by not getting one of the (briefly) heavily discounted Dante variants.
- Build quality is superb - the thing is clearly roadworthy.
- The fan noise - at max - can be pretty objectionable. I looked into replacing it with a Noctua, but there were 'issues' with that - don't remember what. But, when I built my rack, I 'fanned' it with the big 8" Noctua fans and a temp sensored controller - putting the temp sensor ON the Venu and dialing in the controller to keep the Venu coolest solved that problem.
- One thing I really like about it is that you can make xover and PEQ changes LIVE - ie, you hear the changes instantly (be careful, though.)
- Good tips about time alignment - will try those soon.
- The RTA mic is a worthy investment - even comes in a nice pelican style case. I leave mine hooked up all the time
I've used both REW and Venu AutoEQ, and will be trying out Dirac someday soonish - the Venu autoEQ is easily the simplest to run.
- No global gain control. Not an issue for me, but is a bit surprising.
- TOTALLY agree on subharmonic synth! I 'discovered' that just a few months back, and what it does for 60s-70s LP CD re-issues is astounding...of course, exactly what it was designed to do. Remember to turn it OFF when not needed, tho (Also, it can be used as a very ersatz loudness control at low volumes...)

I DO wish someone would send one of these in to Amir for testing - but mine ain't never leaving my rack.
Esp AES vs. Analog input performance. The Harman tech told me that the AES inputs bypasses the ADC circuitry....

Totally agree - esp if you already have all balanced DAC & amps.
I LOVE my Venu!! Easily the most satisfying bit of 'techy tool investment' I have - and Harman really needs to be hugely congratulated on sheer usability of their remote app.

Thanks for the great write up - long overdue!

 

[win]

On the app availability - that's nice there's an Android one but I'm fairly sure there is not an iPhone one, just iPad. It's weird because there IS an iPhone app for their similar PA2 unit. Maybe someday I'll borrow my daughters iPad and try it out! Otherwise a moot point for me, as I use a laptop on WiFi to control it.

I do have to directly enter in the unit's IP address to find it. I have the dbx mic too, but I actually prefer to use my USB mic, alongside REW, to measure and configure it. It's simple enough to manually enter the PEQ values based on manual analysis.

I'm surprised the cooling fan bothered you. I actually keep mine in a closed cabinet and it doesn't get very warm. I love noctua fans! My media PC has 4 of their best 120mm fans and it is super quiet. The baby fans (40mm?) look very cute.

... how do you turn it off? I always leave mine powered on. The toggle switch in the back is inaccessible for me. Wish it had a 12v trigger. EDIT - Rereading your post, I think you were talking about turning off the sub synth not the actual power state of the unit, oops.

 

[Jazzman53]

I’ve been interested in these loudspeaker management systems for a while. I almost pulled the trigger on a great bundle deal for the PA2 and measurement mic a few months ago, but I was just closing on my new house and didn’t want to over extend my resources (I slightly regret this).

It sounds like you are going in to the DBX unit via AES, and you are using it as your primary DAC? It’s hard to tell from the specs, can you individually EQ the sub(s) with the output EQ? This seems like a very cool device (if I had AES out from my TV especially). Are you using the Logitech Transporter for volume control?

As for the Behringer units, what made you choose to go with the the two units together, it seems like the DCX2496 has quite a bit of EQ functionality built in. What was it lacking that made the addition of the DEQ2496 worthwhile?

Finally, thank you for posting this, I find these personal experience, usability, and implementation impressions very helpful. Technical reviews are very valuable, but they don’t always give a full picture of how someone might actually use the equipment in their day to day life, and how that experience measures up (pun intended).

I am using the Logitech Transporter as the preamp (volume control) in my system, and feeding its AES out to the AES input on the Driverack. I'm also using the Driverack's DAC; driving three Carver TFM-25 amps.

Regarding the Behringers; I think the DCX alone would have sufficed. I already had the DEQ2496 when I purchased the DEQ2496, and that's why I had both. The DEQ2496 has more EQ capabilities than the EQ's in the DCX, however, and I do think it was worthwhile having both-- but I definitely prefer the Driverack over the Behringer pair.

 

[gene_stl]

Jazzman , why do you prefer the DBX over the Behringer pair.

 

[Jazzman53]

Jazzman , why do you prefer the DBX over the Behringer pair.

The iPad user interface and the auto-EQ functions sold me on the DBX. The Behringers are downright primitive by comparison.

 

[bigguyca]

I use about 2% of the capabilities of a DBX DriveRack Venu360 to drive four subwoofers from one input. It's in a media room and I didn't even know it had a fan. I like the balanced ins and outs and the tolerance for high signal levels. The iPad and PC interfaces work well. The thing has amazing capabilities that I don't use. It's possible to store dozens of setups and switch quickly between them. It also feels "solid" both physically and when using the interface.

PROSTARAUDIO has great "open box" or used prices, whatever those terms mean, on eBay or their website. Also you can try making them an offer, using the Request a Deal selection on the Venu360 listing page. This seems to be the expected way to do business with them. You may find new prices aren't too much more than used.

 

[Hipper]

The cooling fan concept puts me off. I've tried to reduce the ambient noise in my dedicated listening room as I find that enhances the sound of the music. If I got a unit it would sit on a rack with the rest of my gear.

A few years ago I tried a power regenerator which had a small cooling fan. You could set it to run at its lowest setting. I never noticed it.

My other concern is volume control. The DBX doesn't have one - is that right?

Currently I use a CD Transport>DAC (with digital volume control)>Power Amp.

Using a DBX with its crossovers I have two options:

CD Transport>DAC (with volume control)>DBX (ADC, DSP, DAC)>Power Amp

Controlling the volume with my DAC before it enters the DBX - I'm not sure if that will be problematic or not?

CD Transport>DBX (DSP, DAC)>Power Amp

How to control the systems volume? I'd guess I'd have to get some sort of volume control device.

 

[win]

Indeed you need to use a dac or a preamp to control volume. The venu360 is a set it and forget it thing, definitely no convenient volume control. If you're very technically inclined, I bet you could sniff the commands sent to the unit over WiFi (it's not encrypted and sits on your local network only) and program something into a universal remote. That seems like more trouble than it's worth imo, very kludgy.

 

[Neddy]

The fan noise IS annoying, BUT it only comes on when the Venu is driven 'hard', ie, very loud levels for long periods of time (? Why? It's not like i'ts putting out lots of power or anything...).

However, since installing it in a rack with (very quiet) 8" cooling fans that only run above 90degF as measured at the Venu, I don't think it's come on at all. No longer an issue for me.

Someone else, on another forum, had more info on the fan type used, why it wasn't easy to replace with a quieter one (even the Noctua 20mm (!) fans are pretty obnoxious) and at what temps it came on at, but I've lost that link.
It's meant to be rack mounted.

Oh, and the peak limiters are pretty slick too - easy to see when it is active from the red VU leds from across the room; since I have plenty of excess gain stages in my system, I use the limiters to prevent 100% Oops!es.

This thing has lots up tricks I haven't used yet, like auto gain control, compressors, and auto feedback suppression.
Yes, you'll need volume control upstream of it, either in the DAC or USB source.

PS. The manual is also excellent, AND you can download the app (version of your choice) and try it out in Offline mode before you make a buy decision

The only 'downsides' I've found are that a) there isn't much (useful) forum chatter about it - just a few Pro comments here and there. And b) the Harman online help forum seems to be totally useless. (("Don't know? Don't Guess. Call the Factory.")

I asked one of the their tech support folks what percentage of 'home gamers vs. Pros he got calls from, and he said he only got a few calls from home audio types, most were from Pro/roadies...and didn't understand why the thing hasn't become the darling of DIY audio types.

Oh, and full credit due: Here's where I first read about it:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulle...-Pro-DIY-3-Way&p=403198&viewfull=1#post403198

 

[win]

Someone else, on another forum, had more info on the fan type used, why it wasn't easy to replace with a quieter one (even the Noctua 20mm (!) fans are pretty obnoxious) and at what temps it came on at, but I've lost that link.
It's meant to be rack mounted.

I just find this curious... mine never gets anything higher than slightly warm to the touch, and it's buried in a closed cabinet. I'm fairly sure the fan is a standard 40mm fan, so I'd be very interested to read what you're referring to.

 

[Neddy]

Mine doesn't get more than warm to the touch either, but the SHARC chips inside DO. I originally had it in a stack of A/B amps, wth 1" 'feet' between each unit; moving it to an actual rack has helped a lot.
I built the rack specifically for low noise, with 2-200mmm Noctuas pulling air up and out the back.
Since setting that up, it's run so quietly that I've never actually checked/tested to see if the Venu fan ever comes on any more.
(Also, since the OktoDAC above it in the rack doesn't fill a 1U space, it leaves a bit of room for radiative cooling, I suppose.)

On a dead quiet night with everything else in the room off, I can just barely hear the rack fans come on, but could hear the Venu fan kick in even with music playing, before.

You are right about it being a 40mm fan (I grabbed the wrong 'spare Noctua box' to check it!) ; still noisy, and so are the Noctua versions - just too small to move a lot of air quietly, (and also at a higher frequency - the 200mm fans on the rack are much lower in pitch, and a lot quieter.

One other feature I use: with the RTA mic, I use the white/pink noise generator to do quick level sets/checks - very handy, that.

 

[pkane]

I'd love to see its actual tested measurements here, but the specs would point to it being transparent, but not SOTA

PA2 was an earlier model with specs that appear similar. Venu360 added some improvements and features. PA2 was measured here.

 

[Neddy]

Hah. Totally forgot about that - Thanks!

 

[tadawson]

Is there a "real" interface for this as well, or just the mickey mouse phone/tab wireless junk? (I run 4 DriveRack 260's in various places, and not sure what the OP is taking, but serial on *any* age laptop is trivial, but I digress . . . would not have objected to USB, though . . . ) Hard to store configs and firmware on a laptop and be of much value if they have dumbed it down for the non-pro market (Which was the target of the "PA" line - cheaper, less featured, and targeted for the casual user, not the pro . . . most pros wouldn't touch the -PA with a 10 foot pole . .c.)

For what it's worth, most of the DriveRack software/features seem pretty common acorss the line, and all that I have seen *DO* have input level control, but it"s kinda buried and intended as a setup adjustment, not as a volume control.

Oh, and can't say that I have ever found an "auto-eq" that had much value. Better to setup and time align with something like SMAART so that you can check various places in the venue, and make sure that you didn't get "auto-goofy" instead!