Dayton Audio B652-AIR Speaker Review

[Davedaring]

Preview


For starters noaudiophile's FR chart is far different. (polarity issue?). The dispersion is vary narrow, comapred to the Daytons, has better bass. The Pioneers are far more expensive(as of present) $ 117 to $43 ; with the one of many easy mods (XOVER, woofer, box deadening) available; the drop in woofers (from Carlspeak, IIRC) with better bass are $50. Therefore $93. Also many report no listener fatigue. I have heard the Pioneers are warm, which equals 'dark'. I can turn treble down but not up.; and I like the Daytons in more rooms than more expensive speakers. Also many report less 'listener fatigue' then other speakers that do. I've heard garbage speakers and IMHO they aren't. So what budget speakers are deemed 'good'?

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Preview


For starters noaudiophile's FR chart is far different. (polarity issue?). The dispersion is vary narrow, comapred to the Daytons, has better bass. The Pioneers are far more expensive(as of present) $ 117 to $43 ; with the one of many easy mods (XOVER, woofer, box deadening) available; the drop in woofers (from Carlspeak, IIRC) with better bass are $50. Therefore $93. Also many report no listener fatigue. I have heard the Pioneers are warm, which equals 'dark'. I can turn treble down but not up.; and I like the Daytons in more rooms than more expensive speakers. Also many report less 'listener fatigue' then other speakers that do. I've heard garbage speakers and IMHO they aren't. So what budget speakers are deemed 'good'?

FWIW, I replaced the modded B652 AIRs I was using in the rear position of the my little 4.1 desktop/nearfield setup with a pair of old JBL 2500s I picked up locally for $20USD cash. The JBLs, despite having smaller woofers and very simple crossovers -- three components vs. the B652 AIR's two -- are much, much better, at least in that particular application. They are considerably heavier and more stoutly constructed, with no audible resonances and little to no "boxiness" like I heard from the Daytons -- the tweeters being small titanium domes rather than AMTs, their vertical dispersion is also superior, as is their power handling (80 watts max.) and sensitivity (by a just bit @ 88 dB). I don't know if there is modern JBL equivalent is, but that might well be worth a look-see. Used 2500s seem to go for $50-75USD/pair on eBay, occasionally with free shipping.

 

[AllanMarcus]

For the most part, it's hard to beat these speakers for the price, but from what I read, these are base speakers that DIYer buy to mod. Swap out the woofer, add bracing and some more fill to the cabinet, change the resistor (or add a real crossover), and for an extra $60 they start to sound quite good (from what I've read). I've been thinking of trying a pair as I've been an AMT fan since I had ESS speaker in the 70's. Sure you can find better used speakers on CL oft times, but for $40-$60/pair for the dome or AMT versions, at at low volumes, these are pretty decent for the price.

Lots of discussion here: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/

 

[Maiky76]

Hi,

@bunkbail asked for some advices.
Here are some thoughts about the EQ.

The raw data with corrected ER and PIR:

Score no EQ: 1.53
With Sub: 4.58

Spinorama with no EQ:

• Many issues: resonances, directivity issue limited LF, etc.
• XO (if any) point too high
• Probably better buy a better speaker to start with.
• Most probably better suited to near filed listening as the DI error is really bad (4-8kHz)
• Add some internal damping (rock wool)?

Directivity:
Better stay at tweeter height
Horizontally, stay on axis or within 10deg.

EQ design:
I have generated one EQs. The APO config file is attached.
the deviation from flatness is pretty pronounced.
I am not sure it will be as large an improvement as the numbers suggest.

Score EQ Score: 4.64
with sub: 7.67

Dayton Audio B652 APO EQ Score 96000Hz
March112021-103223

Preamp: -2.3 dB

Filter 1: ON PK HPF 54.3 Hz Gain 0 dB Q 1.14
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 320 Hz Gain 1.85 dB Q 3.47
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 913 Hz Gain -2.06 dB Q 3.22
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1265 Hz Gain -3.18 dB Q 4.81
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 2793 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 5.73
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 3746 Hz Gain -8.2 dB Q 5.48
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 5721 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 9.87
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 5774 Hz Gain 4.06 dB Q 2.41
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 11455 Hz Gain -4.78 dB Q 2.9

Spinorama EQ Score

Zoom PIR-LW-ON

Regression - Tonal

Radar no EQ vs EQ score
Huge improvements

The rest of the plots is attached.

 

[bunkbail]

Hi,

@bunkbail asked for some advices.
Here are some thoughts about the EQ.

The raw data with corrected ER and PIR:

Score no EQ: 1.53
With Sub: 4.58

Spinorama with no EQ:

• Many issues: resonances, directivity issue limited LF, etc.
• XO (if any) point too high
• Probably better buy a better speaker to start with.
• Most probably better suited to near filed listening as the DI error is really bad (4-8kHz)
• Add some internal damping (rock wool)?

View attachment 117504
Directivity:
Better stay at tweeter height
Horizontally, stay on axis or within 10deg.
View attachment 117506
View attachment 117510

EQ design:
I have generated one EQs. The APO config file is attached.
the deviation from flatness is pretty pronounced.
I am not sure it will be as large an improvement as the numbers suggest.

Score EQ Score: 4.64
with sub: 7.67

Dayton Audio B652 APO EQ Score 96000Hz
March112021-103223

Preamp: -2.3 dB

Filter 1: ON PK HPF 54.3 Hz Gain 0 dB Q 1.14
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 320 Hz Gain 1.85 dB Q 3.47
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 913 Hz Gain -2.06 dB Q 3.22
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1265 Hz Gain -3.18 dB Q 4.81
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 2793 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 5.73
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 3746 Hz Gain -8.2 dB Q 5.48
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 5721 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 9.87
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 5774 Hz Gain 4.06 dB Q 2.41
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 11455 Hz Gain -4.78 dB Q 2.9

View attachment 117499
Spinorama EQ Score
View attachment 117503

Zoom PIR-LW-ON
View attachment 117500

Regression - Tonal
View attachment 117501

Radar no EQ vs EQ score
Huge improvements
View attachment 117502
The rest of the plots is attached.

Thank you so so much for the EQ! I'll try them out and report back!

 

[bunkbail]

I've spent a couple of hours listening to the speakers now, I literally am slack jawed! Are these really a pair of $70 speakers? I filled the internal cabinets with 1-inch thick polyester fiber batting along the surfaces and applied @Maiky76's EQ settings above, and played the speakers with a sub, I couldn't believe what I'm hearing! Even my Wharfedale EVO 4.2 never sounded this good. The precise imaging and wide, enveloping soundstaging are just mesmerizing (pardon the flowery audiophile words). There is no hint of harshness, lisping on vocals at all, everything sounded so detailed. Is this really the power of equalization? Call me clothed eared or whatever, but this is the really best sound I've ever heard in my life.

Edit: @Maiky76 you're literally a magician man. Thank you so much for the EQ settings. Couldn't thank you enough.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Hi,

@bunkbail asked for some advices.
Here are some thoughts about the EQ.

The raw data with corrected ER and PIR:

Score no EQ: 1.53
With Sub: 4.58

Spinorama with no EQ:

• Many issues: resonances, directivity issue limited LF, etc.
• XO (if any) point too high
• Probably better buy a better speaker to start with.
• Most probably better suited to near filed listening as the DI error is really bad (4-8kHz)
• Add some internal damping (rock wool)?

View attachment 117504
Directivity:
Better stay at tweeter height
Horizontally, stay on axis or within 10deg.
View attachment 117506
View attachment 117510

EQ design:
I have generated one EQs. The APO config file is attached.
the deviation from flatness is pretty pronounced.
I am not sure it will be as large an improvement as the numbers suggest.

Score EQ Score: 4.64
with sub: 7.67

Dayton Audio B652 APO EQ Score 96000Hz
March112021-103223

Preamp: -2.3 dB

Filter 1: ON PK HPF 54.3 Hz Gain 0 dB Q 1.14
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 320 Hz Gain 1.85 dB Q 3.47
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 913 Hz Gain -2.06 dB Q 3.22
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1265 Hz Gain -3.18 dB Q 4.81
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 2793 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 5.73
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 3746 Hz Gain -8.2 dB Q 5.48
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 5721 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 9.87
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 5774 Hz Gain 4.06 dB Q 2.41
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 11455 Hz Gain -4.78 dB Q 2.9

View attachment 117499
Spinorama EQ Score
View attachment 117503

Zoom PIR-LW-ON
View attachment 117500

Regression - Tonal
View attachment 117501

Radar no EQ vs EQ score
Huge improvements
View attachment 117502
The rest of the plots is attached.

Is all this for the original B652 or the newer, AMT-equipped B652 AIR model?

 

[Music1969]

EQ design:
I have generated one EQs. The APO config file is attached.
the deviation from flatness is pretty pronounced.
I am not sure it will be as large an improvement as the numbers suggest.

Score EQ Score: 4.64
with sub: 7.67

Hi, this EQ measurement is with the passive 'crossover' (resistor, capacitor) in place right?

I would imagine with DSP crossover things can be further improved?

But the bass extension is not that great - sub crossover would have to be around 100 Hz?

 

[iMickey503]

I was on Offerup and found a pair for $25 bucks. My pair are NOT so good condition aesthetically, There is some white stuff on the speaker... And the Vinyl is a BIT messed up. The Drivers have some GOO on them. The Cabinets are cheap etc. All of this does not bother me. Again. Even NEW? You can get these for less that 60 shipped to your door then Some good tweeters. Really hard to complain.

I get why so many people gush over this cus out of the box it does look pretty good. If ONLY they could do a better job on the GLUE on the drivers, then it would be a home run on looks. But its not bad.

I'm going to give them a good listen and see what I think about this used pair. the only reason why I really bought it was to check out the AMT Tweeter. Really I have ZERO need for this but I thought I would take a stroll and see what they sound like.


I mean How bad can they suck? If I think they sound bad, I will let you know.

==========================================

Okay with my BRIEF Foray on how they sound Near Field in my Car... (I got Weird hours) I can DEFINITELY HEAR THE TWEETER. Bass is shy, and they are worth every bit of the $25 bucks plus gas I spent on them.


Now what gets me is that to my ears, and I am no audiophile, they sound good. They don't sound muffled or bad or distorted out of the box. But the only thing that stands out to me IS the tweeter. Its nice with plenty of High detail or noise if you can hear things at 16 Khz; ME? Not so much.

If you ask me? After a simple E.Q. they sound much better. Out of the Box, they sound chesty with the music I tried them with.

Now on stuff like a single Instrument, like Clarinet? I can see why people get the impression that these hit way above their price point. The Simple 6dB crossover does have its merits and attributes. But with a Terrance Popp Buuuuuttt...
They really are unfinished. Could you make it sound better, YES. Is it worth it with things like G&R speakers just $200 bucks? Yes if you only have $50 bucks or get them used like I did for 25 Bucks sure. Some inexpensive dayton parts or a cheap active X/o would be the way to go. You are still asking a LOT of this 6 incher. But it can do it and MOST people won't notice much of a problem. The Cabinet can be Braced, but let's be Honest here. This driver needs MOAR AIR SPACE to really do its job.

Its just like in Car Audio, INSTALLATION IS EVERYTHING.

Out of the gate? It sounds okay. But if you ask me? Great deal on the Makings of your NEXT speaker project.


What would I buy these new for? If I wanted to make a very impressive LOOKING speaker. The Front Baffle can still be used and would make some Nice In walls or surround speakers.

IMO? These were made for POP MUSIC. TING TING RAP RAP RAP crowd. They won't notice a THING wrong with this speaker. So... Those folks. By the time they get something is wrong? The tweeter will have blown out.

Where this would really shine is using these drivers in a Portable Bluetooth setup. A Pioneer deck or deck with built in Network Mode (what Pioneer calls it, but a Built in crossover) and this would make a Nice Loud system to take to outdoors. And the tweeter has lots of protection from Objects and Fingers.


There is one thing I did notice on one track on Bitter Sweet Symphony by the Verve. At about 3 min into the song, there is some Dialog that goes missing in lesser quality systems, and this speaker does miss the mark a bit of producing this detail there.

But here I am comparing it to my car audio system. Something of a Mess for most people, but again, I set it up for me to hear it when I'm doing 55 on the highway.

Again, like others have said, this is a problem with the extreme of the crossover, and this gets muddled in the speaker a bit. (Its not really so audible, and as the volume goes up it sort of gets lost in the mix so to speak. )

I think with proper E.Q. and any cheap sound card used with an electronic crossover is going to help here. But again, by the time you add up all these things, unless you have it just hanging around? Its not worth dumping money in if you ask me as for a bit more. you get more for your money.

For Car Audio Use? If you are going to make some Pods? use with with some Dash Speakers? And the 6.5 form factor works for you? You can do some magic. These speakers don't seem to mind working in doors. And you won't being going that low with them in the doors either with a subwoofer, you will be OOKAY.. Not GREAT.. But OOOKAY for the Money on a Bikini TIGHT STRING BUDGET.

I hope that helps you guys out there that are the Non Audiophile crowd. Most of us might not ever notice much as we drop the knob. Just saying.

I'd say after a few beers, you won't notice.

 

[mhardy6647]

The post above was full of words, but danged if I could extract much meaning from it.
I still think (FWIW -- strictly my opinion) that these are loudspeakers that look, and sound, exactly as one would expect of very cheap loudspeakers. Listenable but not good in any real sense.

 

[iMickey503]

I apologize. I would sell my soul to be able to condense a thought like normal people do.

I will be more brief from now on. Thank you for the critique. It is greatly appreciated.

Spoiler: Is this better?

If you would be so kind, PM me with your edit, and I will be happy to compensate you with a donation of the organization of your choice or directly. That way, everyone benefits.

The post above was full of words, but danged if I could extract much meaning from it.
I still think (FWIW -- strictly my opinion) that these are loudspeakers that look, and sound, exactly as one would expect of very cheap loudspeakers. Listenable but not good in any real sense.

I must respectfully disagree about the generalization.
The Insignia is an AWFUL speaker to my ears compared to the Dayton Air. (Model Number: Insignia NS-B2111)
Looks were top notch. I like a lot of speakers. This sounded orders of magnitude worse compared to the Dayton Air. Female vocals and piano came out distorted even under moderate listening volumes. The same can not be said of the Dayton.

Comparing the Dayton to the SP-BS22-LR Andrew Jones Pioneer praised by the audio press, I never found these speakers that involving. On paper they measure well. Overall, they sound flat. Lack any real defining character or call attention to a Sonic signature reminiscent of speakers brands in the same budget price category index less than $100 :

• Klipsch R-41M,
• Bose 201,
• Polk Audio T15

The same can be said for the Yamaha NS-6490. Cheap they were at less than $50 a pair. I had 4 of these examples, No bass at all. Treble Sparkle was MIA. Dynamic these were not. I wistfully characterize the sound of the NS-6490,on par with 70V ceiling speaker. About the same power handling as well.


As reference, Martin logan released the Motion 2i in 2017. Though initial price tag of $400 a pair seems a bit stiff, as is the bass performance. Having owned the Motion 2i, I don't recall it being once complemented for it sound. It does have a striking visual aesthetic with it's molded piano gloss black GRP exterior. Effortless high frequency extension. I regard it more as a showpiece to an interior decorators aspirations of a speaker rather than one designed to involve you in to the music. something that the inexpensive Dayton Air does with aplomb to the Casual listener.

Sadly, the Air may not feature a crossover as well designed as the one from MartinLogan's chief audio technologist, Joe Vojtko, I do believe that dayton is able to hold its own in speakers above its price class. Output being one of them.

In summary;
_____The Dayton B652-Air featuring the AMT Tweeter as its signature statement, is an affordable foray into the exotic end of what is possible bringing the signature sound of the AMT tweeter to the masses.



I hope that this meets your expectations. I will be looking forward to your suggestions.

 

[keantoken]

This is interesting, I did many measurements of my B652s when I was modding the crossover. I never saw the 340Hz notch (some of the B652 woofers have vents under the spider and others like mine don't, so I suspect it is a spider resonance which may be affected by the vents).

With augerpro and my crossover mods, the 3.4KHz woofer peak is tamed with a notch filter and the tweeter capacitor is much reduced. This way the tweeter isn't working against the woofer. I suspect this is why my measurements don't show the enormous distortion at 6KHz.

With my crossover mod and stuffing the speaker with towels, I like it better than any speaker I've had so far. Which isn't saying much because I've only ever owned cheap speakers for economic reasons...

 

[Doodski]

I apologize. I would sell my soul to be able to condense a thought like normal people do.

I will be more brief from now on. Thank you for the critique. It is greatly appreciated.

Spoiler: Is this better?

If you would be so kind, PM me with your edit, and I will be happy to compensate you with a donation of the organization of your choice or directly. That way, everyone benefits.




I must respectfully disagree about the generalization.
The Insignia is an AWFUL speaker to my ears compared to the Dayton Air. (Model Number: Insignia NS-B2111)
Looks were top notch. I like a lot of speakers. This sounded orders of magnitude worse compared to the Dayton Air. Female vocals and piano came out distorted even under moderate listening volumes. The same can not be said of the Dayton.

Comparing the Dayton to the SP-BS22-LR Andrew Jones Pioneer praised by the audio press, I never found these speakers that involving. On paper they measure well. Overall, they sound flat. Lack any real defining character or call attention to a Sonic signature reminiscent of speakers brands in the same budget price category index less than $100 :

• Klipsch R-41M,
• Bose 201,
• Polk Audio T15

The same can be said for the Yamaha NS-6490. Cheap they were at less than $50 a pair. I had 4 of these examples, No bass at all. Treble Sparkle was MIA. Dynamic these were not. I wistfully characterize the sound of the NS-6490,on par with 70V ceiling speaker. About the same power handling as well.


As reference, Martin logan released the Motion 2i in 2017. Though initial price tag of $400 a pair seems a bit stiff, as is the bass performance. Having owned the Motion 2i, I don't recall it being once complemented for it sound. It does have a striking visual aesthetic with it's molded piano gloss black GRP exterior. Effortless high frequency extension. I regard it more as a showpiece to an interior decorators aspirations of a speaker rather than one designed to involve you in to the music. something that the inexpensive Dayton Air does with aplomb to the Casual listener.

Sadly, the Air may not feature a crossover as well designed as the one from MartinLogan's chief audio technologist, Joe Vojtko, I do believe that dayton is able to hold its own in speakers above its price class. Output being one of them.

In summary;
_____The Dayton B652-Air featuring the AMT Tweeter as its signature statement, is an affordable foray into the exotic end of what is possible bringing the signature sound of the AMT tweeter to the masses.



I hope that this meets your expectations. I will be looking forward to your suggestions.

My written English was word salad. Then I took a English Composition course on the side. That helped beaucoup with organizing my thoughts and condensing ideas into a manageable read for peeps. Reading technical literature helps too as well as being around peeps that have decent composition skills. It rubs off.

 

[keantoken]

Here is CSD for my B652-air with modded crossover and towel stuffing.

The notch at 6KHz was always a curiosity, it comes from the tweeter. I could never figure it out. The 540Hz dip is almost always present in the measurements.

 

[iMickey503]

With my crossover mod and stuffing the speaker with towels, I like it better than any speaker I've had so far. Which isn't saying much because I've only ever owned cheap speakers for economic reasons...

Are you in the USA by any chance?

 

[keantoken]

Yes. I don't consider all my problems to be the fault of my country though.