David Chesky on Streaming Convenience vs Sound Quality

[antcollinet]

This suggests that they are just looking at the files and not the recording.

The file is the recording. If the file is identical - and converted using the same DAC, then the analogue output will also be identical.

It is highly unlikely that a streamer will treat a local file differently from a streamed file. But even if it did, that would be an issue with the streamer, not the platform.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Bear in mind the person we are talking about here actually did a Null test. Why did he do that if he didn't believe the null test should show soemething real. And yet when it didn't back up his perceptions - suddenly it was wrong. There must be something mysterious causing the sound difference.

To me this shows his integrity. If he was an unethical snake oil peddler he wouldn't attempt the null test, and when the null test disproved his beliefs, he would either conceal the results or fabricate false results.

There are very strongly held beliefs in other areas of life where demonstrable facts disprove the beliefs and yet the beliefs persist.

I agree with the majority here that the identical digital files delivered via streaming or local storage will null and will sound identical, but I take issue with assigning motives to someone who has been this transparent.

 

[ahofer]

To me this shows his integrity. If he was an unethical snake oil peddler he wouldn't attempt the null test, and when the null test disproved his beliefs, he would either conceal the results or fabricate false results.

There are very strongly held beliefs in other areas of life where demonstrable facts disprove the beliefs and yet the beliefs persist.

I agree with the majority here that the identical digital files delivered via streaming or local storage will null and will sound identical, but I take issue with assigning motives to someone who has been this transparent.

Yes motives can’t be known. But to me, it sounds just like plausible deniability. Like Alan Shaw at Harbeth he’s trying to live in both worlds.

 

[antcollinet]

To me this shows his integrity.

You and I will have to agree to seriously disagree on this one.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Yes motives can’t be known. But to me, it sounds just like plausible deniability. Like Alan Shaw at Harbeth he’s trying to live in both worlds.

And, you may be right. I prefer to see the glass half full.

 

[Mr. Widget]

You and I will have to agree to seriously disagree on this one.

Yep... and that's fine. We have both said our bits.

Now lets go back to introducing newbies to the fact that two properly functioning DACs of decent quality sound the same.

 

[voodooless]

To me this shows his integrity. If he was an unethical snake oil peddler he wouldn't attempt the null test, and when the null test disproved his beliefs, he would either conceal the results or fabricate false results.

He probably knows full well that this would be the very first argument that people bring up. Already going head on against this question is just a clever tactic to evade having to actually answer it, and it paints a picture of integrity. Smart move, marketing 101…

 

[Astoneroad]

Now lets go back to introducing newbies to the fact that two properly functioning DACs of decent quality sound the same.

Do they?

 

[Mr. Widget]

Do they?

Yes, interestingly there is a thread with thousands and thousands of posts you might enjoy reading.

 

[Overseas]

My perception of his profits is as good evidence as his trust in his educated hearing, still my evidence is more logical and clear for anyone.

 

[Astoneroad]

Yes, interestingly there is a thread with thousands and thousands of posts you might enjoy reading.

That's a mighty big assumption there Widget... back to the thread's topic.

 

[Sal1950]

My son, Lucca, is starting a speaker company, and I’ve listened to countless versions of his speakers, testing various brands and sizes of internal speaker cables from the crossover to the drivers. Despite identical setups, we consistently hear significant differences between wire configurations, even when measurements suggest they should sound the same. To clarify, we’re not conducting formal double-blind testing here; one person plays the files while the other listens, drawing on our experiences as listeners.

Once someone says things in support of cable sound, I'm thru with them.
Only under a serious badly spec'd cable can the sound possibly go awry.
And then makes it worse by devaluing double blind listening tests. BLAH

 

[wadude]

They both have their places, but I’ve never been that big a fan of either FM or streaming.

 

[GXAlan]

From 1998

DVD Audio: battle lines are drawn to define the next-generation music format. - Document - Gale General OneFile

As this article went to press, the audiophile label Chesky Records was about to release a standard DVD with music recorded using 96-kHz/24-bit PCM encoding. "With 96 kHz and 24 bits, you don't hear digital artifacts," says artistic director David Chesky. "At 44.1 kHz, there's hardness of timbres and lack of space. At 96 kHz, there's none of that digital flicker. There's more space, more low-level resolution, and a general ease of presentation you don't get at the 44.1-kHz sampling rate."

 

[GXAlan]

It is highly unlikely that a streamer will treat a local file differently from a streamed file. But even if it did, that would be an issue with the streamer, not the platform.

With a hardware streamer yes, but if you were using a Windows app for streaming versus a local playback app, there might be something different with the way one uses exclusive WSAPI versus not.

 

[theREALdotnet]

With a hardware streamer yes, but if you were using a Windows app for streaming versus a local playback app, there might be something different with the way one uses exclusive WSAPI versus not.

The premise of Chesky's assertion is obviously that everything else is the same. The only difference can be that in one case the material fed to the music player is a file downloaded from an online store or ripped from a disc, and in the other case it is streamed (i.e. downloaded on the fly) from a subscription service. The player has to treat both sources the same, and generally not do anything to the data, other than send it on to the DAC.

His statement would have no meaning otherwise, he might as well claim that streamed content via car stereo sounds worse than downloads via home stereo.

One difficulty with keeping everything else the same I can see is that streaming services normalise loudness to a "house" value, like -14 LUFS. Precise volume levelling (before DAC) is therefore required for conducting listening tests. But since he was able to null the two sources, we can assume that that's a given.

 

[pablolie]

Well, I associate his name with very high quality recordings. Am I wrong?

And Wilson Audio with superior audiophile speakers? These are all marketing constructs... all these emperors have no clothing or at most a thong. And their bods aren't great... :-D

 

[sq225917]

Why downloads are better than streaming.... because you own the tracks, end of.

 

[krabapple]

From 1998

DVD Audio: battle lines are drawn to define the next-generation music format. - Document - Gale General OneFile

Yes, Chesky was spouting bullshit back in 1998 too.

 

[krabapple]

Why downloads are better than streaming.... because you own the tracks, end of.

<shrug> Set up a software recorder and record the stream. Best of both worlds.