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DAP vs nx4 vs LG V20/V30/V40 vs existing Nokia 8 for home listening (in bed, couch, garden).

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Hi All,

TLDR: Having trouble convincing myself to pay for a DAP when I hear only marginal benefits over my Nokia 8.

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I have read quite a range of other posts and just wish for some advice on my thought processes here.

I currently listen to Westone W60 IEM (unbalanced) on my Nokia 8 phone, where i notice a buzz/distortion during very quiet sections of music.

I mostly stream Spotify 320, I have a trial of TIDAL for lossless, unsure if I will keep TIDAL due to cost and missing tracks in my Spotify library. I am, to my own detriment, too lazy to continue to curate a collection of FLACs and my musical interests change with the wind.

Money is not a massive issue, but lets say a budget of 600USD/1000AUD to keep things reasonable.

Options with costs/benefits:

1. Keep listening on the Nokia 8, tolerate mild audible artifacts, listen at my desk on my Focusrite 2i2 if I'm feeling picky.

2. Get a portable like the Topping NX4 for approx 200AUD.
Benefit: Price.
Cost: mucking around with OTG cables, using UAPP to stream TIDAL without native android messing with the audio signal before sending to the NX4, no Spotify support, no replaceable battery.

3. Buy a LG V20 for 200AUD.
Benefits: Cost, replaceable battery.
Cost: Still have to mess around with UAPP and stream TIDAL as above, as I understand that the quad DAC only works with dedicated players like Neutron, LG media player, UAPP etc.

4. Buy a DAP such as the Fiio M9 (450AUD) or A&K SR15 (850AUD).
Benefit: Spotify support, no need for UAPP, potential for better quality sound (? questionmark).
Cost: Price, laggy interface, small screen makes typing more difficult, no replaceable battery.

5. Use a laptop and take my Focusrite 2i2 with me to the bedside, couch, balcony etc.
Benefits: Cost, no need for purchases.
Costs: Annoying, clumsy solution.

I start by thinking either 1 or 3 are best , as I dislike non-replaceable batteries, and typing on DAPs. But then I want spotify support, so 3 seems silly. Then I consider 2 and 4, where 2 has the same problem as 3. Hence 4 is the solution, where I am paying considerable money for potentially marginal improvement over 1. Now you see why I feel stupid and slightly frustrated.

Any comments/criticisms of my thoughts above?
 

dc655321

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Have you considered picking up a refurbished iphone 5se/6?
I use one with my iems (64 Audio A12t) all the time - sounds great. The only iems I noticed any artifacts with was the CA Andromeda, which are brutally (read: stupid) sensitive.

Some of the dongle-type DAC/AMPs may be reasonable. eg: Apple's dongle reviewed well here, or the SMSL iDEA.

I have the NX4 and it's overkill for iem use. Portability is also questionable.
 
OP
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considered picking up a refurbished iphone 5se/6

Considered, yes, indeed my ex girlfriend has a spare (umm, perhaps I'd better just buy one...) - but I assumed this cannot possibly be as good as the LG V20. Of course, it may be inaudibly different and have the major benefit of supporting spotify, and tidal, without any mucking about.

Added to the list (and 160AUD used, 260AUD new - cost is a plus).
 

pwjazz

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Have you considered picking up a refurbished iphone 5se/6?
I use one with my iems (64 Audio A12t) all the time - sounds great. The only iems I noticed any artifacts with was the CA Andromeda, which are brutally (read: stupid) sensitive.

Some of the dongle-type DAC/AMPs may be reasonable. eg: Apple's dongle reviewed well here, or the SMSL iDEA.

I have the NX4 and it's overkill for iem use. Portability is also questionable.

Similarly, an older iPod Touch would work too.
 
OP
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with Bluetooth, you could also try something like this - https://www.radsone.com/earstudio

Another great idea - I know my phone can do aptx HD and I read that this codec is essentially inaudibly different than a wired connection (confirmation/rebuttals welcome).

However, I am under the impression that android pre-processes all signals even before sending to a bluetooth receiver, so I had (rightly or wrongly) discounted this option.
 
OP
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Similarly, an older iPod Touch would work too.

If only I could remember who I donated my old iPod Touch gen3 to all those years ago... darn generous nature.

Edit: As the price is comparable to the iPhone 6 - are newer versions of the iPod touch comparable or superior in sound quality? Of course I can also do my own research, just wondering if others know offhand / can recommend reading.
 
OP
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V20 over the iPhone would be if you need more power to drive higher impedance and less efficient cans

No need at present, I have 70 Ohm Sennheiser HD 25s, but there is purchase of something more demanding on the 2 year horizon (fantasies include Sennheiser 800/820, Focal Elegia or Utopia, Audeze LCD something).
 

dc655321

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indeed my ex girlfriend has a spare (umm, perhaps I'd better just buy one...)

lol. yes, buy your own.

Of course, it may be inaudibly different and have the major benefit of supporting spotify, and tidal, without any mucking about.

iPhone 5se/6 measure well and of course you can use whatever music-service-de-jour you wish.

However, I am under the impression that android pre-processes all signals even before sending to a bluetooth receiver, so I had (rightly or wrongly) discounted this option.

IMO, the re-sampling by Android is not a big deal. I suspect most would struggle to discern any effects.
If you're sourcing tunes from Spotify (or any other service using compression), it's not as if the bits haven't already been abused somewhat before they ever get to your device. Again, most would struggle to discern any difference.
 
OP
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re-sampling by Android ... sourcing tunes from Spotify .... the bits have already been abused

Indeed, and my reading suggests that multiple lossy transcoding of information may compound and exacerbate effects... but perhaps it is inaudible/negligible, and this would strengthen your recommendation for the radsone unit above.

BTW that radsone unit looks great - measures better than the shanling m0 yet cheaper.
 
OP
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Alright I think I'm about to pull the trigger on that radsone unit.

PSA: amazon has 20USD off for prime members at the moment so thats 80USD and I'm off to the races.

Yes its aptx HD not wired - but so portable, so cheap, doubles as usb desktop combo, and ultimately if I am ever unhappy with it I'll sell/donate to one of my poor friends with an iPhone XS.

I still might have a listen to the LG one day... I'm sure I will stumble upon a cheap second hand V20 for around 100AUD if i look hard enough and wait long enough.

Thanks for the advice folks.

Edit: I'm still super interested in other people's thoughts as I may not keep the Radsone for ever and this conundrum will probably keep circulating in my tiny mind.
 
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VintageFlanker

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Alright I think I'm about to pull the trigger on that radsone unit.

PSA: amazon has 20USD off for prime members at the moment so thats 80USD and I'm off to the races.

Yes its aptx HD not wired - but so portable, so cheap, doubles as usb desktop combo, and ultimately if I am ever unhappy with it I'll sell/donate to one of my poor friends with an iPhone XS.

I still might have a listen to the LG one day... I'm sure I will stumble upon a cheap second hand V20 for around 100AUD if i look hard enough and wait long enough.

Thanks for the advice folks.

Edit: I'm still super interested in other people's thoughts as I may not keep the Radsone for ever and this conundrum will probably keep circulating in my tiny mind.
I suggest you to think about buying units which have been measured here in priority. We don't know much about the ES 100 in true measurements conditions. Also, keep in mind APTX HD is not comparable to wired performance for many reasons, the first one being this still a lossy codec. Is the difference truly audible or not? I don't know.

I owned one few days and returned it back. I heard widely audible distortion from the ES100 at high volume (I didn't try it wired, though). Subjectively, I found the Dragonfly Red cleaner in comparison. (for what it worth).
 

pwjazz

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I heard widely audible distortion from the ES100 at high volume

What headphones were you using, and were you using the single-ended or "balanced" output?

Subjectively, I found the Dragonfly Red cleaner in comparison

These are totally different form factors for very different use cases. The Dragonfly is a host-powered USB dongle, the ES100 is a self-powered bluetooth receiver.
 
OP
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suggest you to think about buying units which have been measured here in priority
Yes, agreed. In a comedy of errors the es100 on discount won't ship to Australia, so I ordered a 3.5mm extension cable in frustration and at least I can lie in bed contemplating the next step.
 

VintageFlanker

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What headphones were you using, and were you using the single-ended or "balanced" output?
Single ended. My main "nomad" cans were the Ultrasone Signature DJ and Shure 1540 and Meze 99 Classics at the time. I'm taking about distortion only at high volume (something I love on the go)
These are totally different form factors for very different use cases. The Dragonfly is a host-powered USB dongle, the ES100 is a self-powered bluetooth receiver.
I beg to differ a bit. Two different features (one being battery powered and wireless) but almost same form factor, IMHO (DFR being slightly longer and "heavier"). Both may be used wired as a USB dongle DAC, also.
 
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OP
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Alright in a happy coincidence a friend needed a new phone and ended up going with the LG G7 for 400AUD (cheap!) so at least I get to try the LG quad dac.

I might pop into a local hifi store and demo the topping nx4 so at least I know what I'm missing.

I wish that ES100 deal had been available in australia, but without the deal, and buying from australian amazon, it comes in at 165AUD which is too close to the topping at 180AUD or the V20 at 200AUD - so the choice is not clear cut.

Still the 3.5mm extension cable at least solves the problem of mobility within my room at least, so i'll be able to listen in bed.

I kind of cant wait until either DAPs have decent speed, streaming support, and full android, or someone brings out a phone with absolute top of the line audio capabilities. I reckon 2 generations and we should see something like that given the pretty steady conversion of the world to streaming music, and the availability of higher bandwidth streaming and bluetooth codecs.

In the mean time I laugh that I even need a portable device as I hardly leave the bedroom anyways. But audio purchases are a spice of life.

In other news, Amir has a Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 for testing at some stage - and at that point I'll be able to make an informed decision on whether to upgrade to the Topping DX3 Pro that everyone loves so dearly.
 

tential

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You could try the fiio m11..
It has no laggy interface and all of the features you're looking for. Or the hiby r6 if you're willing to deal with the slightly huge impedance of the amp.

I know you already got something but just saying.

I'm saving up/hoping a competitor comes to the hiby r6 pro
 

JJB70

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I think that smartphones can be perfectly sufficient as music sources. I have a Sony Xperia xz premium which has an audibly transparent DAC and headphone output. The amplifier output is limited because of hearing protection requirements but with reasonably efficient and easy to drive headphones it is enough. I went for a while where it was my principal music source and used it with some pretty good headphones without feeling I was missing anything
I did revert to using a DAP but that was because battery life of my phone fell off a cliff and most potential replacements do not have a headphone jack. If you have to start using dongles I decided I might as well go back to two devices. However, you really don't need to spend much to get a good DAP. Some DAPs I see are silly and clearly designed to sate that segment of the market that wants to spend $$$$$$$$$$s. I bought a Shanling M3s, on offer at £170, it is audibly transparent, has all the headphone power I need and is very nicely made. It has a balanced output but I never use it as the normal output drives my headphones to a perfectly satisfactory volume.
Mobile music has been commoditised and you really don't have to spend much to achieve transparency and go past the point of diminishing returns. As I say, I don't even think you need a separate audio player to get there.
 
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You could try the fiio m11..
Yeah i did look at that - but would rather keep costs down and avoid a dedicated device with which will eventually be an aging cpu, slightly laggy experience to start with, and a non-replaceable battery. I know that sounds like harsh condemnation of DAPs, and that criticism must also apply to my phone. But I need a phone, and will inevitably have to replace that phone. Hence I'd prefer to keep whatever I buy (if anything) on the cheaper side, and able to last a long time - eg portables that I can use with my next phone, replace their battery, or if not, use as a desktop unit with another pc.

edit: ok I shouldnt assume M11 will be at all laggy without trying. I have just found the other DAPs I have tried to be a little less responsive than a phone. I do appreciate the input :)

speakers... unless...neighbor issues
Indeed part of the need for headphones is my downstairs neighbours, and my occasional preference for listening volumes that would annoy my flatmate. I have a decent speaker setup in my bedroom, but couldnt be bothered to buy and setup another set for the rarely-used loungeroom, and definitely not for the kitchen etc.

Shanling M3s
Thanks - I had overlooked that this model can do streaming spotify - and cheaper than I can buy the Fiio M9 as well. I'll see how I go with my friend's lg g7 phone, and the ES100 unit that I am bidding on ebay, and will keep this on the list of potential options. I also agree that the difference from my Nokia 8 phone output is likely to be marginal (and I'm not the best at listening tests, I fail to distinguish 192 mp3 from flac). So really, its just the buzzing/distortion when the sound gets super low that bothers me about the phone, and I am still flip-flopping over whether I should even bother.
 
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