danny's newest videos on speaker distortion...

[Flippo63]

I (This is my opinion) believe his speakers that he sells can be good (haven't heard any, hiis Encore got good review here) but his peddling all the snake oil stuff can be rotten at the same time.

 

[Jim Taylor]

I’m not personally offended, just maybe I can help a person thinking of trying the brand to not get turned off by these threads found at ASR.

Would you give the same accommodation to Flat Earthers, herbalists and astrologers? We generally engage in criticizing those, too. (Or as you call it, "bashing".) Just like Danny, those groups have their adherents and testimonials. Does that make them worth defending? Should we, as you say, "help a person thinking of trying" those out?

To turn a blind eye to lazy thinking, misinformation and pseudo-science is destructive. Our information base is already choked with crap, and more is being added every day. We don't need more of it. We need clear-minded, critical thinkers dedicated to raising standards, not inventing excuses for their decline.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

The self-proclaimed expert keeps on expounding...

 

[amirm]

Okay boss, please continue your new GR bashes thread, I hear his business is doing fine lately so apparently not everyone thinks alike.

It is not my thread. I had the common courtesy of watching the full video and providing a technical response as to what he is misstating in there. Your post on the other hand was information-free, adding nothing to the conversation. You want to help him? Act properly and provide technical substance.

As to his business doing well, what do you know about his business? How much of it comes from selling proper technology vs selling voodoo that only empties audiophile pockets? So you understand, these are the two types of products:

1. GR Research X-LS Encore DIY Kit speaker:

GR Research X-LS Encore Kit Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the GR Research X-LS Encore DIY Kit speaker. It was kindly put together by member @Rick Sykora. You can see his build thread here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/build-of-gr-research-x-ls-encore.14312/ The bare kit...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I gave it a recommendation.

2. GR Research B24 AC cable:

GR Research B24 AC Cord Review

This is a review, listening tests and measurements of the GR Research B24 AC cable. I purchased it from the company direct. It costs US $349 in the 4 foot section I purchased. As the British saying goes, the B24 "looks the part" with the thick cabling and such. But fails in actual construction...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Totally useless product that is horribly implemented to boot.

If all he did was #1, he would not be disliked so much. But not only does he do #2, but he has amped up that area of his business. Therefore it is our duty to make sure that proper message is out there about his improper claims. Without it, his voice will rule.

FYI I agree that he has expanded his reach and influence. His channel is growing as people love his charming accent and impressive looking (to lay people) charts and such. And that is what makes it a requirement that we address his falsehoods.

 

[JustJones]

@Jimbob54 perhaps merge this with the thread that exists with the same video on the same topic?

 

[SNHK]

Okay boss, please continue your new GR bashes thread, I hear his business is doing fine lately so apparently not everyone thinks alike.

I think it's important to call out misinformation for what it is. That's a pretty substantial part of this site.
On the other hand, a company can make a good product like the Encore kit in this case, but that shouldn't shield them from criticism where it's due. You mentioned you like your speakers that Danny designed and that is perfectly fine, but that can't be used as a shield against perfectly warranted criticism. Stuff like this being called out only helps consumers like you and me to make educated decisions on what we do and don't buy.

 

[Heinrich]

I think it's important to call out misinformation for what it is. That's a pretty substantial part of this site.
On the other hand, a company can make a good product like the Encore kit in this case, ...

To put this into perspective, the idea of DIY was big in the 60/70/80ies of the last century. It was way cheaper to build the cabinet yourself, plug in proven tech and have at least good sound, even if it didn't look that nice. (The industrial models didn't look that fancy either.) For many different reasons that path doesn't work out anymore. The Encore for instance isn't that successful, except as a hobby-horse project, which has some justification in its own right.

So we see offerings for upgrades of industrial models. In many cases the upgrades do good things besides the snakeoil. The snakeoil is needed to make the (partly reasonable) upgrade profitable.

My objection with the "distortion"-video is, that knowledge, the perspective, the language is from said period of the last century. It simply doesn't help other than to spark doubt and grief. That is the worst you can do, as an essential part in enjoying recorded music is to believe in its truth.

 

[Wesseling Audio Lab]

I’m not personally offended, just maybe I can help a person thinking of trying the brand to not get turned off by these threads found at ASR.

My take away from your responses is that you are not interested in being educated!

 

[Zgrado1970]

I am a little surprised GR Research has such devoted fans. Or that Danny has time to manage multiple sock-puppet accounts.

 

[DanielT]

It is worth noting that unless at truly gross levels lower order harmonic distortion (H2 and H3, especially H2 - which to my understanding is pretty much inaudible until you start to hit about 10%) is largely inaudible. Higher order HD and IMD are much more readily audible, and these are really what make a speaker sound "distorted".

So as usual Danny is in the camp of "knows just enough to be dangerous".

It is probably also largely a practice component to weigh in as a factor regarding being able to detect distortion.

This, the quote below is from a technical consultant in acoustics and audio technology who, among other things, works with developing speaker drivers for a Danish company. Over the years, through his job, blind tests and so on, he has worked up this distortion sniffing ability. Thus, the % levels he mentions may be something that mostly applies to him. Or even several others?

I-or wrote:
As for the basic question, there are mostly older reports available in the field if you are interested in more elaborate science. In my opinion, these works suffer badly partly from the rather inadequate recording and playback systems of the time and partly from not having divided the listeners into insensitive and sensitive groups and have therefore arrived at relatively high limits of audibility.

Since the majority of listeners are quite insensitive to distortion, this is not a priority area and no one will therefore invest the resources required to dig deep. In addition, the insensitivity unfortunately increases via listening to today's torn and thus very distortion-dense productions. It's not just the lack of dynamics that makes the audiophile's ears bleed.

In general, however, it can be said that it seems that sensitive listeners under optimal conditions can approach the hearing threshold, but that you (of course) cannot fall below it (I would not attach too much importance to the subliminal speculations). In practice, however, the background level in the room in the frequency band where the distortion components appear will constitute the final limit.

Masking means that harmonic components often become completely inaudible, while intermodulation components often appear very clearly. Even perhaps less well-known issues like Doppler Distortion (FM Distortion or a form of IMD) have a greater impact on the sonic characteristics than one might think - especially with some modern drivers in a two-way configuration, where linearity is good but the radiating area is small, which leads to high diaphragm velocities already at moderate sound pressure levels. Even turbulence modulation noise from bass reflex ports can be clearly detectable as a particular kind of rawness or indistinctness in the sound.

Anyone who has embraced the use of truly low-distortion speakers knows what this means - going from around 0.3-0.5% THD in the midrange and treble to around 0.05-0.1% THD clearly reduces a grittiness that you don't always be aware of before the switch. A warning should be issued here, as there is no going back after hearing what it should sound like.

It is also interesting that deliberately rather "dirty" popular music recordings also sound cleaner, or perhaps rather more distinct, even though the raw sound even increases, i.e. that the listener hears exactly the distortion that was intended. The difference can sometimes be strikingly large even here, which probably surprises many.

faktiskt.io • Visa tråd - Intermodulationsdistorsion på gott o ont.

 

[RickS]

This thread was previously merged with another, locked and then later removed from view. This has been corrected and some overall polish applied.

This restoration was done in response to a member request. Since it contained contributions from Amir and other members, felt it was appropriate to restore for posterity and out respect for the thread's creators and contributors. If you find other opportunities to improve content organization or presentation, please feel free to start a conversation with me.

Thanks!