Danny Ritchie's Rube-Tubes

[Everett T]

@amirm
@AdamG247 , @BDWoody

Private message to me some minutes ago:
Sorry you are exposed to this drama. These are facts to help you understand.

1. ASR members have been attacking Danny for at least 2 years.
2. After GR Research customers first made Danny aware of the attacks, he called on his customer/followers to not engage in mudslinging like that on ASR.
3. Amir started posting rebuttal videos with the intent to correct information presented in Danny's videos.
4. A customer sent Danny a Flat Earth T-shirt and square world globe. Danny used that as a humorous prop. No mention of ASR involved in the attempt at lighthearted humor.
5. ASR assumed Flat Earth was a direct reference to them. Attacks on Danny increased.
6. Amir wanted to test the GR Research X-LS Encore speaker. Amir refused to accept a unit assembled by Danny, yet he accepts any other already "big Name" assembled speaker.
7. An ASR member assembled a single X-LS Encore speaker, not following readily available guidance. Did everything possible to complete a crappy build.
8. Amir tests the X-LS Encore speaker. Turns out pretty good, earning a recommendation.
9. ASR member assembles the LGK 2.0 speaker, again not showing any common sense regarding internal damping.
10. Amir tests LGK, overdriving to distortion. Goes unreasonably overboard with negative comments.
11. Danny finally responds directly to the repeated attacks from ASR and clear attempts to discredit his products.

Here we are today with multiple ASR member posts, including Amir, acting as if they are pure as the driven snow. ASR started the mudslinging long, long ago.




We know its wrong. But maybe we should react to the alternative facts?

That's what someone PMd you?

 

[tomtoo]

That's what someone PMd you?

Yes. See iam sick, and alone i have not the power to fight against this alternative facts. But i think we should fight, before this alternative facts spread.

 

[Astoneroad]

He has had strong growth on youtube. He is very good on camera which makes people want to believe. No question that this combo is creating new false beliefs in people. Then again, we are an antidote to anything he says that is a falsehood. I am not super focused on him right now but can be. Should I respond to him more strongly?

I think he should be ignored individually, but his individual false narratives should be debunked with measurements, as you've been doing. As a well read historian and atheist myself, whenever I confront a "True Believer" with facts and timelines, the answer is always some dismissal due to my lack of faith. Responding to the zealously and gleefully ignorant individual (Danny is an iconic poster child) is fruitless, IMO. Keep up the fight, as you have been, debunking his dog and pony shows about cables, upgrades, tube connectors and burning bushes. Warning... when Galileo tried this approach... his old friend put him under house arrest for life. Then again... Galileo didn't have your Salon IIs and rig into which to take hermitage. Don't look back. Thanks for leading the resistance against costly ignorance.

 

[Everett T]

Yes. See iam sick, and alone i have not the power to fight against this alternative facts. But i think we should fight, before this alternative facts spread.

There's always gonna be fan boys in audio, I'm one of a few manufacturers, but many refuse to accept facts when things don't go as the had hoped for, then it becomes feelings, not facts.

 

[Doodski]

Here we are today with multiple ASR member posts, including Amir, acting as if they are pure as the driven snow. ASR started the mudslinging long, long ago.

What I've seen here is ASR members are "mudsling" because of the snake oil product. Snake oil product is what it is and deserves to be called out.

We know its wrong. But maybe we should react to the alternative facts?

We know it's right to call out snake oil stuff and in the process Danny is caught red handed as he is the one that steers the ship over at GR Research. He can drop the snake oil stuff anytime but he chooses otherwise. Why should we give preferential treatment for Danny/GR Research?

I'm all for a Electra Cable Tube Connectors test to see if there really is a change when using the product @ GR Research. They cost $59 for a set of 4.

 

[sojun80]

@amirm
@AdamG247 , @BDWoody

Private message to me some minutes ago:
Sorry you are exposed to this drama. These are facts to help you understand.

1. ASR members have been attacking Danny for at least 2 years.

When selling snakeoil this will happen. Don't assume ASR. I questioned him way before I found ASR on a few oily products.

2. After GR Research customers first made Danny aware of the attacks, he called on his customer/followers to not engage in mudslinging like that on ASR.

How is this a fact? Like either of them have control of monkeys with keyboards.

3. Amir started posting rebuttal videos with the intent to correct information presented in Danny's videos.

Did he? Proof.

4. A customer sent Danny a Flat Earth T-shirt and square world globe. Danny used that as a humorous prop. No mention of ASR involved in the attempt at lighthearted humor.

What does it have to do with ASR really?

5. ASR assumed Flat Earth was a direct reference to them. Attacks on Danny increased.

Them? Again monkeys with keyboards.

6. Amir wanted to test the GR Research X-LS Encore speaker. Amir refused to accept a unit assembled by Danny, yet he accepts any other already "big Name" assembled speaker.

Proof?

7. An ASR member assembled a single X-LS Encore speaker, not following readily available guidance. Did everything possible to complete a crappy build.

Proof?

8. Amir tests the X-LS Encore speaker. Turns out pretty good, earning a recommendation.

We actually know this.

9. ASR member assembles the LGK 2.0 speaker, again not showing any common sense regarding internal damping.

Proof.

10. Amir tests LGK, overdriving to distortion. Goes unreasonably overboard with negative comments.

For the price it sucked, was not overboard with negative. It was just negative.

11. Danny finally responds directly to the repeated attacks from ASR and clear attempts to discredit his products.

ASR exposes snake oil and bad products. Good product gets good review, expensive snakeoil product gets exposed.

Here we are today with multiple ASR member posts, including Amir, acting as if they are pure as the driven snow. ASR started the mudslinging long, long ago.




We know its wrong. But maybe we should react to the alternative facts?

Alternative facts which are not facts? OK

 

[tomtoo]

When selling snakeoil this will happen. Don't assume ASR. I questioned him way before I found ASR on a few oily products.

How is this a fact? Like either of them have control of monkeys with keyboards.

Did he? Proof.

What does it have to do with ASR really?

Them? Again monkeys with keyboards.

Proof?

Proof?

We actually know this.

Proof.

For the price it sucked, was not overboard with negative. It was just negative.

ASR exposes snake oil and bad products. Good product gets good review, expensive snakeoil product gets exposed.

Alternative facts which are not facts? OK

Good start, but i think we could do better.

 

[Doodski]

@tomtoo & @sojun80 I had a bit of empathy for Danny when he made the last video saying he was focusing on GR research and not getting involved in banter stuff and that @amirm and ASR does not listen to music because we are objectivists.

When I saw the cable risers in the background of the video and the ever present Electra Cable Tube Connectors I realized that he is simply going on his merry way offering snake oil as usual. So bring it on; test those tube connectors and anything else that he offers as snake oil.

 

[Timstunes]

Danny Ritchie of GR Research may prove to be deadly to the audio industry, and with it, all audio consumers. While Ritchie isn't quite at the level of fraud as the recently convicted Theranos grifter Sunny Balwani, Richie's influence and resulting outcome in the audio world may prove to be far more insidious.

A case in point is Balwani's “endofactor” - Google it; it's hilarious – which bears a remarkable resemblance to Richie's “tube connectors”. Both are snake oil; the main difference being that an endofactor doesn't exist, while Richie's tube connectors surely do exist - as a money making gambit.

So, Richie's selling snake oil to consumers who want to buy it. So what? Where's the harm? Here's the definite harm. Right now, audio companies, especially speaker manufacturers are producing higher quality product overall – at all price levels – than at any time in audio history. The terminals used by audio makers, by and large, and particularly above the lowest tier price point, are of incredibly high quality. Incredibly functional.

Contrary to Richie's carnival-side-show medicine-man tactics, antics, and statements, the single, most important function of speaker terminals is to allow the unimpeded flow of current to the speaker. The way to achieve that's by making sure that you don't lose any current. How do you do that? By making the connection between your speaker cable wire and the speaker terminals as tight as possible.

And, right now, most speaker manufacturers are making that extremely possible by making terminals that are thick and that allow you to turn the knobs to get a really tight, secure connection. Slightly higher priced models have terminals at angles to allow you total access to the connection point, best leverage to turn the connector knobs, and to guard against shorting the leads.

Richie's tube connectors – as he calls them – what a joke – pretty much do the opposite. There's no way to tighten anything. The jacks themselves wiggle around, and can even fall right out of the panel to which they're mounted. The whole thing's a silly, Rube Goldberg con job.

So, how's the audio industry's going to be affected by this one thing? This one endofactor? Here's how. Back in the day, pre-amps came with all kinds of controls. Balance, stereo/mono selectors, stereo/mono blends, tone controls, multiple speaker selectors, etc. That was then. Now - today – when's the last time you saw a balance control on a pre-amp, much less tone controls? There was a persistent belief among audiophiles – driven by influencers - that those controls were the most evil, corrupting, bad, awfulness ever conceived by human kind. Eventually, makers dropped them. They just disappeared.

The super quality terminals that makers put on their products today cost money. If Richie's idea takes hold, manufacturers'll just stop blowing money on quality connectors, and stick some cheapo jacks – like Richie's rube-tube connectors – attribute some magical, mystical properties to them – just as Richie does – and pocket the difference. You and I? We'll get inferior products.

Note: I'll be posting this on Richie's site as well.

Thanks for posting this. I share your optimism about audio today, especially speakers. I’m 61, a lifelong music lover and audio enthusiast since about 1973. I feel this is the best time in my lifetime for likeminded hobbyists. I don’t really have anything to add to your thorough post except that I am in agreement 100%. Let’s not let con men and charlatans ruin the good times.

 

[tomtoo]

@tomtoo & @sojun80 I had a bit of empathy for Danny when he made the last video saying he was focusing on GR research and not getting involved in banter stuff and that @amirm and ASR does not listen to music because we are objectivists.

When I saw the cable risers in the background of the video and the ever present Electra Cable Tube Connectors I realized that he is simply going on his merry way offering snake oil as usual. So bring it on; test those tube connectors and anything else that he offers as snake oil.

See i would not care a shiit, i have my opinion.
Just got that PM.
And i know its full of shitt, alone what @Rick Sykora did to make that kit good, is more than .....

But things like this spread.

 

[Everett T]

See i would not care a shiit, i have my opinion.
Just got that PM.
And i know its full of shitt, alone what @Rick Sykora did to make that kit good, is more than .....

But things like this spread.

Yeah Rick isn't lacking in his assembly, if anything the assembly, including instructions or lack thereof, are, especially with flat packs.

I think the overwhelming majority here know that and take anything said about Rick's builds with a grain of salt, especially if coming from brand new members.

Back to enjoying the music

 

[SIY]

Why are people getting worked up about a marginal bullshit artist catering to a niche of a niche?

 

[Everett T]

Why are people getting worked up about a marginal bullshit artist catering to a niche of a niche?

Good question. I've known him and GR for a long time and people proceeded accordingly. I'm thinking the YouTube videos put a lot of it out in public where as before it was more of mouth on forums and at trade shows.

 

[TimVG]

7. An ASR member assembled a single X-LS Encore speaker, not following readily available guidance. Did everything possible to complete a crappy build..
9. ASR member assembles the LGK 2.0 speaker, again not showing any common sense regarding internal damping.

@Rick Sykora has documented each of his builds on this forum and has been completely transparent with all of them, letting anyone follow along each step of the way in seperate threads.
Furthermore, currently working with Rick on Directiva R2, I can say with absolute certainty these remarks are utter nonsense. Rick is very meticulous in his work and takes these projects seriously and would never produce a crappy build, intentional or otherwise.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Thanks for kind words gentlemen. At first I wondered what Danny was trying to do by not mentioning me by name. Later, I realized it helped his narrative to the flock. If they had my name, it would be easier for them to fact-check his alternative facts. He also seems to be banking on repetition and hoping he can lull folks to accept his story. Have seen it work as shown above.

It does require some effort, but as @TimW mentioned, my builds are done openly and there are pictures showing damping materials are posted here on ASR. We will know things have changed at GR when Danny admits the truth and his mistakes. Apologizing to Amir was a good first step.

 

[amirm]

@Rick Sykora has documented each of his builds on this forum and has been completely transparent with all of them, letting anyone follow along each step of the way in seperate threads.
Furthermore, currently working with Rick on Directiva R2, I can say with absolute certainty these remarks are utter nonsense. Rick is very meticulous in his work and takes these projects seriously and would never produce a crappy build, intentional or otherwise.

Adding to this, I am a woodworker and of course know how to solder and put together circuits. So I could build these speakers but I prefer to have Rick do it given his meticulous attention to detail and making sure he goes above and beyond in his builds. If it were up to me, I would have just built the LGK as shipped and not attempt to round it over. If someone knows how to roundover the edges, they would not be buying a ready made flatpack!

And I don't know where this nonsense about not having padding material in LGK 2.0 comes from. It absolutely has it and again, was one of the cases of him reaching out to the designer and asking for it. None was supplied with the kit. I have had to answer the same accusation a dozen times in youtube comments it feels. I finally made it a sticky and linked to Rick's post/thread.

Importantly, Rick checks with me on every decision. We have long conversations where we go over every aspect from what to buy and how to build and deal with the kit. So folks not better put these at his feet where he is doing all this work for free. You have a problem with the kit? Ask me. But best to do your homework and read and watch the videos before making empty accusations.

The major point should be that despite his success, GR Research does a poor job of documenting its kits. The original XLS was horrible in this regard so Rick and I made calls in multiple areas on what to build.

Here are specific answers to some of the other rumors posted in PM to @tomtoo:

6. Amir wanted to test the GR Research X-LS Encore speaker. Amir refused to accept a unit assembled by Danny, yet he accepts any other already "big Name" assembled speaker.
7. An ASR member assembled a single X-LS Encore speaker, not following readily available guidance. Did everything possible to complete a crappy build.
8. Amir tests the X-LS Encore speaker. Turns out pretty good, earning a recommendation.
9. ASR member assembles the LGK 2.0 speaker, again not showing any common sense regarding internal damping.
10. Amir tests LGK, overdriving to distortion. Goes unreasonably overboard with negative comments.
11. Danny finally responds directly to the repeated attacks from ASR and clear attempts to discredit his products.

Here we are today with multiple ASR member posts, including Amir, acting as if they are pure as the driven snow. ASR started the mudslinging long, long ago.

6. There has never been an attempt by Danny to send me an assembled unit of any speakers. We had to instead pay for all the parts at full retail and build them ourselves.

7. The XLS was put together very well. If it were crappy build, it would not have garnered good measurements and recommendation from me.

9. Already addressed above. Padding was put in after query to Hobbs (Danny's assistance) on their forum.

10. This is nonsense. 86 dBSPL @1 meter is just 2 watts of power! Company itself provides frequency response for the driver at 84 dBSPL @ 1 meter. Speaker is a distortion factory at almost any volume. Excursion was reduced from 2+mm in version 1 to just 1 mm. Physics nails you for this change and it did.

11. I tested three products from GR Research. Two of them garnered recommendation to me and praise. One, the LGK 2.0, is a horrible design with respect to distortion and has little place in the market. Fairness and lack of bias doesn't get any better than this. You want a recommendation from me? Build a good product. Don't do the reverse and then hype it up that it kills larger speakers.

As to last comment, I am guided almost entirely by objective measurements which are not subject to whim of me or anyone else. You have to be blind to think I can game the system. And remember, while my evaluations are full of measurements and technical references, Danny's are hand waiving reticule. As a consumer, you need to be smarter than to believe the latter instead of the former.

 

[Timstunes]

The 7th paragraph in the OP explains that. " So, how's the audio industry's going to be affected by this one thing? This one endofactor? Here's how. Back in the day, pre-amps came with all kinds of controls. Balance, stereo/mono selectors, stereo/mono blends, tone controls, multiple speaker selectors, etc. That was then. Now - today – when's the last time you saw a balance control on a pre-amp, much less tone controls? There was a persistent belief among audiophiles – driven by influencers - that those controls were the most evil, corrupting, bad, awfulness ever conceived by human kind. Eventually, makers dropped them. They just disappeared."

The OP's position is that people, driven by influencers, would rather believe lies than believe the truth, that the industry is more than willing to follow along for the purpose of profit, and that decent, level-headed consumers (presumably like us) will suffer the consequences.

I'm not so sure that I disagree. Jim

It is important to remember that the absolute goal, the most important aspect for all audio companies and manufacturers is not achieving the highest level of sonic reproduction, but profit. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. If they can increase their margins without out offending the public they will. Marketing or misinformation, doesn’t matter.

This doesn’t mean there are not conscientious companies, engineers and designers striving hard to produce the highest quality they can at given price points. Thankfully there definitely are, often squeezing by on low margins. Unfortunately, they are often the first to fail.
This is a bit off topic but a very informative discussion on the operation costs and details of bringing audio products to market.

Also:

 

[Another Klipsch idiot]

@amirm it would be interesting to test the tube connectors in comparison to some generic gold plated and non-gold plated binding posts. Run some 40Vpeak, 5Apeak @ 8 Ohms for a total of 100WRMS through them and see how they frequency sweep and voltage drop if any.

More than interesting, I think at this stage of the poop slinging show it has become necessary and required.
Maybe a waste of time, but some hard irrefutable objective data on the record.
While the tubes may be relatively or subjectively pointless and a bit overpriced, they're small fries in a world where you can walk into most audio shops and spend hundreds of dollars per individual banana plug.

 

[mhardy6647]

I am still amused (and a bit bemused) by the "prevailing wisdom" in some circles that ASR (or more to the point, ASR's majordomo) has a hidden (or, from some folks' perspective, not so hidden) agenda.
I sure haven't detected it -- and I came into this particular funhouse chockablock with skepticism!
While I do think all y'all get a bit too can't see the forest for the trees sometimes, I have no reason to believe -- nor do I have any lingering suspicions -- that there's any ill intent here towards anyone a priori.

(I mean, I have some pretty jaundiced opinions of some of the players in this business, but I ain't testin' stuff, much less posting my data on teh webz! )

 

[Neward Thelman]

Should I respond to him more strongly?

Amir: don't do it. What would be the most likely outcome of any sort of confrontation? Probably, it'd look like a petty spite fight - just another pissing match - between a couple of dudes. Right now, you and ASR stand above the fray, with a refreshing reputation for objectivity, scientific rigor, and a mostly dispassionate yet irresistibly engaging style that draws the interested reader or viewer in. Succumb to the temptation to retaliate, and all of that vanishes.

Better to leave such petty interactions to random members of the public - such as I.