I'll refrain from expressing myself due to being asked by a esteemed MOD to be cool and not insult anybody because it reflects on ASR when I do! So take that Danny!
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Danny Richie's latest...
- Thread starter Recluse-Animator
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No nerves to hit here. However, bringing up G&R as if it's some sort of revelation is akin to placing a golf ball on a tee in front of Scottie Scheffler.
Fore!
Your speakers may be fine. I have measured one his mods and speakers and gave them a positive recommendation. It is just that we don't know it until we independently test them.
I’ll just add one more thing. A spent a ridiculous amount of time trying to get certain speakers to sound right through eq and even DIRAC LIVE and never got better over all sound just a nicer response plot. With these GR speakers, I never felt the need to eq except for the subwoofers, plus lots of time fine tuning the positioning and some room treatments.
Could be I don’t know what I’m doing, but I basically got burned out on all the REW measurements and attempted eq “fixes” so now I just listen to music.
I won’t comment anymore because I believe you guys made your point and I understand.
Could be I don’t know what I’m doing, but I basically got burned out on all the REW measurements and attempted eq “fixes” so now I just listen to music.
I won’t comment anymore because I believe you guys made your point and I understand.
Judging from the very limited horizontal off-axis response data, the directivity of this NX-Otica is a hot mess.
gr-research.com
NX-Otica Kit (Pair) | GR-Research
gr-research.com
"Lots of time fine tuning the positioning" goes with speakers with poor off-axis response and those that are dipole. As for EQ, you need proper anechoic measurements to correct above transition frequencies. Without it, you are shooting in the dark.
Wouldn't the shooting in the dark mostly match up to danny's approach?
So why you recommend eq and DIRAC LVE? Also, in my experience all speakers can sound better with positioning tweaking. I had perfect off axis KEF speakers but they didn’t float my boat so maybe perfect isn’t perfect to me, why you think there’s so many options in this hobby? You just have to try a few designs and hopefully you find one that you enjoy enough to stop searching.
More curious why you think particular speakers may provide all that is required? Kef I wouldn't call perfect by any means either....
According to preference scores and measurements they are top notch, nothing is perfect and I never said any particular speaker would provide all that’s required, whatever that is.
MattHooper
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I agree.
Amir has really shaken things up in just the way the hobby needed! His influence, and also of this forum and hence some of the forum members too, is clearly wide ranging at this point.
I also see ever more measurements being used in YouTube reviews. I suspect the ASR influence there as well. But in any case, it’s great to see.
I have not formally reviewed Dirac Live. I do use it myself but limit it to 200 Hz where what is being corrected is impact of the room.
Possibly but a good speaker in my experience sounds good almost independent of that as long as you EQ for bass response.
KEFs have narrow dispersion. So while you may have accuracy on-axis, you may not have very spatial response. Your new speakers are entirely different, making everything sound grand due to extra reflections. That effect is tiring for me but there was a time I liked it in limited listening.
As to why there are many options, it is because there is so little reliable information about speakers from companies or just about any traditional audio press. As such people can't tell the good from the bad.
It is a needle in proverbial hay stack doing it that way. Now, if you use proper measurements, then the odds of buying something non-performant shrinks significantly.
I agree, I fell for some snake oil tweaks I could of avoided if I knew better at the time, though I use better quality cables than basic lamp cord and flimsy IC cables, some of the cable companies are the biggest ripoff.
Measurements are very helpful, but don’t tell the whole story.
This forum is especially helpful for the average person who just wants good sound, cuts through the BS. Though audio fanatics (spends thousands on cables etc) or snake oil pushers hate this forum.
They don't tell us about personal preference and that can vary wildly.
I've sat in demos of speakers I thought were terrible but almost everyone else there loved them.
Likewise I've had people say 'You like these speakers? They're not my sort of thing at all.'
Most people prefer linear speakers with good off-axis response, we know that from research. But most people isn't all people.
Don't get hung up on it. If it works for you that's the end of the story.
I agree. I don't think he questions the results at all, as long as he can use it to sell his crossover mods.
His measurements of Jamo Concert 8 is a good example.
He posted a video complaining about how bad it was, and made a crossover mod. The customer didn't accept the results, and I think there were also several comments on the video questioning it (It has been removed).
He ended up measuring two other Concert 8, and just as expected, the results were different.
He tried to put a spin on it, by saying that he actually thought there was something wrong with the first one, but it didn't stop him from posting the video, and as far as I remember, he didn't even mention a possible tweeter problem (I could be wrong, the video is gone...).
Follow-up:
This is how it compares to my gated measurement using a UMIK-2 (with 50 dB scaling):
The same results, but with 1/3 smoothing applied to my measurement:
Jamo Concert 8 / D830 Spinorama measurements (CTA-2034)
Here are some measurements of the Jamo Concert 8 bookshelf speaker. I think the MSRP was $2.400 / pair back in 1997, but I'm not sure (~$4.696 today). My measurements are quasi-anechoic, with port+woofer corrected for baffle edge diffraction, combined with gated 1m measurements. Looks...
www.audiosciencereview.com
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Judging from the very limited horizontal off-axis response data, the directivity of this NX-Otica is a hot mess.
NX-Otica Kit (Pair) | GR-Research
Fully agree and while it is a limited set of measures, they are the most critical ones. Based on what Amir found in the X-Voce, pretty sure Danny does not understand open baffle design. It looks as though he borrowed from a known designer but does not know how to apply his woofers properly. Another example of this is his questionable use of the BG Neo3 tweeter. I like the tweeter overall but Danny tries to use it as a dipole AND lower the crossover point. Linkwitz tested this and here is his conclusion…
“In addition, for dipole application the back cavity of the Neo3W has to be removed, which will increase distortion. Partial cancellation of the front acoustic output by the rear acoustic output will require higher drive levels to maintain on-axis SPL. The lack of a rear chamber is likely to cause additional electro-mechanical problems. The large amount of distortion at relatively low power level would rule out this driver for my applications, which usually require a low crossover frequency.“
I wouldn’t recommend the NX OTICAS unless you have the room, the work best 5 or more feet from the front wall. That tweeter is the best I ever heard, plenty of detail, dynamics and never fatigued from listening.
One goal of the design is excellent imaging and soundstage, and when setup properly, they do this exceptionally. So despite the overall flaws the speakers are very enjoyable. And decently high sensitivity is also a plus.
What speakers are you involved in designing? I’d be interested in hearing a design of yours.
See the Directiva project. I lead the design team and Amir reviewed the active version. I just started my own designs under the name Denotiva. The initial design is still a work in progress.
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