Danny Richie's latest...

[Andysu]

But here I think Danny has good points and a good solution. On axes, the Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 8's FR is pretty lousy. Especially considering their price.
The solution will probably cost a lot with Danny's expensive crossover parts, but there will be a solution.He'll get to that,in detail,in the next video, so it's not covered in the video below. If you have bought a pair of expensive Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 8, I'm guessing that you can imagine spending a decent amount of money on a better crossover, to fix a good FR. That while swearing at Wilson Audio when you open your wallet.

Danny's measurements (the upper ones in the screenshot) is very similar to Stereophile's results:
View attachment 421805


According to Danny, they dip down to 2.4 Ohm. According to Stereophile : There is a drop to 2.2 ohms at 77Hz (fig.1)

Wilson Audio Specialties WATT/Puppy System 8 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I couldn't lift the 170-lb WATT/Puppy 8 onto a tall stand for the acoustic measurements, so the farfield response measurements have less frequency resolution in the midrange than is usual. I don't believe this negatively impacted the speaker's measured performance to any...

www.stereophile.com

Danny's solution is to fix the top's FR (mid-tweeter). Let the top work in almost full range mode and then disconnect the bass boxes and power them up separately with a subwoofer plate amp (maybe with LP-HP filter? )

Danny switches the bass drivers from parallel to series to solve the low Ohm dipping problem. More amp power will then be needed with this switching but with 92 dB (according to Stereophile: sensitivity my estimate coming in at 92dB(B)/2.83V/m) when connected in parallel, there is little to "take off" when switching the double 8 inch bass drivers so they get connected in series.

this also was relaxing , may listen again watch for fourth time

 

[RickS]

A salesman can be both.

He's been doing this for 30 years now. You can't hang around for this long and not have 'something' going for you.
There's something tangible there that keeps his business going.
They used to all him the King of the White Van speakers. Which was, ironically, not untrue because every month or so a white shipping container would arrive from India with all kinds of speaker drivers in it. And out the door they would go to customers.

He's an easy guy to take pot shots at. I did that myself many years ago on AudioAsylum for incorrect comments. But he doesn't let technical missteps/misstatements deflect him. He just keeps rolling.
There are numerous black-hats in this goofy industry. I wouldn't put Danny in the Top 50 of a list of people like that.

Dave Reite.

Interesting and thanks for sharing.

I am seasoned enough to set my expectations low for having any major impact on Danny or his followers. However, I do know some that have left the flock, and my hope is to be a light for those who might be skeptical or trying to judge his veracity. In the end, there are bigger problems and more interesting problems to solve.

 

[Andysu]

i find Danny videos to be scientific relaxing maybe better than anyone else's videos around here , Danny gets the burger and fries award for clam relaxing videos

Why does Danny never measure below 200Hz? Is it due to laziness?

In any case. You have good points, which I agree with.

I thought the solution of powering up the bass boxes separately actively was good, but as you say, you can just as well go all the way to make the entire speaker active.

BUT actually as I write this I saw that part two from Danny was posted so after watching; it is, according to Danny, baffle edge diffraction effects that make the tweeter's FR so choppy. He tests it and it seems to be correct. With a lot of felt placed on the inside of the speaker cover, the FR got better:
View attachment 421885View attachment 421886

Of course some talk from Danny's side about the tube connectors and the new crossover he fixed, but Danny doesn't actually say much about it nor what it would cost.

Starting at 11:00, Danny starts discussing baffle edge diffraction effects:

i put the video on loop its relaxing calm like a burger and fries with chocolate milk shake , seriously i relax in bed and listen to Danny i don't always agree but i do agree he has some good hints and i think wouldn't DSP crossover and DSP EQ solve this on any speaker and then Danny mentioned thou i won't highlight what it was he said in the two videos on ( page 17 ) its that that got me thinking , which is what i been thinking for well over few years if i could easily do it , like some here can easily do it and then check it again , not gonna say i just leave it as riddles , it would take two to tango the speakers and since there are many hear wiling to spend up to $1m which is crazy insane , i keep the secret sauce to myself

anyway back to playing one of the two videos again ( just applying the idea to JBL professional cinema )

 

[RickS]

They are not. He has released speakers with awful response due to inability to measure low frequency response: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...v123-x-cs-encore-center-speaker-review.40156/

If you want technician level evaluation/design of speakers, he is your man. If you want a proper engineer with the right knowledge, look elsewhere.

While get your sentiment, others may not. There are good and bad engineers and technicians...

A good designer is capable of great designs. Their level of education and experience determine how great. Danny is not even a technician but has some experience and a passion for audio. Often the major difference is being able to judge when an idea is technically justified one or not. Not saying he is not smart, but promoting magic power cables, tube connectors and fancy caps simply fails to demonstrate the judgment required to be a competent designer. Peddling audio fluff may help keep his business afloat but does not make Danny a real speaker designer.

The audiophile market is aging, and the competition is fierce. GR Research is built on Danny's brand of salesmanship. Without any products that offer sustainable differentiation, most younger buyers will look to younger, slick influencers for advice. In the past, his marketing was a differentiator, and he had few competitors. The future will not be as simple.

 

[James240]

Our boy has supposedly corrected that nasty Wilson.

Damn that's brave sending him something of that value hope the owner knows what he/she was doing and enjoys the new sound..

I don't mind Danny his klipsch fixes are decent value but those Wilson's yer yikes..

 

[RickS]

Damn that's brave sending him something of that value hope the owner knows what he/she was doing and enjoys the new sound..

I don't mind Danny his klipsch fixes are decent value but those Wilson's yer yikes..

Lol, did not really notice the title of the second video. Since Danny has to ask, kind of says a lot...

If I had to guess, the owner probably has more money than sense. The Wilsons are probably destined to be his garage speakers.

 

[PatentLawyer]

Lol, did not really notice the title of the second video. Since Danny has to ask, kind of says a lot...

If I had to guess, the owner probably has more money than sense. The Wilsons are probably destined to be his garage speakers.

That all said, it does seem like the Wilson had some questionable design decisions from the factory, no?

 

[Theta]

It is what people say who "don't know what they don't know". Time has passed Danny by. What was viable and semi-normal in the 80s and 90s is not in any way good for today. Audio science has made massive progress since then. He is stuck to his youthful days in how he looks at audio. He needs to increase his technical knowledge a lot. He is a good speaker repair guy, but for overall engineering of a speaker? Nope. He is most likely a nice enough guy but he needs to study up on the last 20 years of audio advancements. In many trades, people think they are amazing and do a fantastic job when in reality they have been doing the same mistakes and mediocre job for 20 years. You have to really examine yourself and your work product to make sure you really are doing top notch work. So many car mechanics, plumbers, home remodelers etc. that repeat mediocre jobs their entire lifetime. Danny may be that person.

Wrong, Arnie Nudell of Infinity, Peter Walker of Quad electronic, Philips of Holland, Altec US, David Hafler, Bob Carver and others wrote the book, sorry no significant improvement since then, except in the digital conversion.

 

[Purité Audio]

Uh huh
Keith

 

[RickS]

That all said, it does seem like the Wilson had some questionable design decisions from the factory, no?

Yep, but any potential buyer could get readily from an 18-year-old Stereophile review.

No Danny show required.

 

[AdamG]

This thread is 2+ years old. I don’t think we need to bring this back from the dead.

On edit: We were convinced that this thread should be allowed to continue. Fingers crossed Team. It’s your forum after all.

 

[RickS]

Upon further discussion and member input, will allow thread to continue.

 

[Penelinfi]

He usually makes flat on axis, but there's also usually now a 3kHz off axis bunching, with no on axis compensation. Usually the "terrible" speakers sort of balance things out albeit messy response all around.

I wonder how this new "NRD" speaker will measure up and sound. I kind of feel they should really make a 3 way as well, but then again, they like their own drivers.
I don't mind that cabinet design

 

[DSJR]

But here I think Danny has good points and a good solution. On axes, the Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 8's FR is pretty lousy. Especially considering their price.
The solution will probably cost a lot with Danny's expensive crossover parts, but there will be a solution.He'll get to that,in detail,in the next video, so it's not covered in the video below. If you have bought a pair of expensive Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 8, I'm guessing that you can imagine spending a decent amount of money on a better crossover, to fix a good FR. That while swearing at Wilson Audio when you open your wallet.

Danny's measurements (the upper ones in the screenshot) is very similar to Stereophile's results:
View attachment 421805


According to Danny, they dip down to 2.4 Ohm. According to Stereophile : There is a drop to 2.2 ohms at 77Hz (fig.1)

Wilson Audio Specialties WATT/Puppy System 8 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I couldn't lift the 170-lb WATT/Puppy 8 onto a tall stand for the acoustic measurements, so the farfield response measurements have less frequency resolution in the midrange than is usual. I don't believe this negatively impacted the speaker's measured performance to any...

www.stereophile.com

Danny's solution is to fix the top's FR (mid-tweeter). Let the top work in almost full range mode and then disconnect the bass boxes and power them up separately with a subwoofer plate amp (maybe with LP-HP filter? )

Danny switches the bass drivers from parallel to series to solve the low Ohm dipping problem. More amp power will then be needed with this switching but with 92 dB (according to Stereophile: sensitivity my estimate coming in at 92dB(B)/2.83V/m) when connected in parallel, there is little to "take off" when switching the double 8 inch bass drivers so they get connected in series.

In this case, maybe not a bad thing to do, accepting that ownership of these is part of an exclusive 'club' where monster traditional amps able to drive a one ohm load hard is taken for granted. I heard what I think was a pair of WP 7s in totally free space, digital source and (large) Krell driven. I found them rather unpleasant, with a severe excess of upper bass/lower midrange bloat rather than a thump with screaming highs, the upper ranges totally non-descript... Feature of the area (part of a conference area I recall as it was a long time back) was a flight-exhausted Dan D'Agostino sprawling on the sofa area that the UK distributor had provided.

 

[Theta]

In this case, maybe not a bad thing to do, accepting that ownership of these is part of an exclusive 'club' where monster traditional amps able to drive a one ohm load hard is taken for granted. I heard what I think was a pair of WP 7s in totally free space, digital source and (large) Krell driven. I found them rather unpleasant, with a severe excess of upper bass/lower midrange bloat rather than a thump with screaming highs, the upper ranges totally non-descript... Feature of the area (part of a conference area I recall as it was a long time back) was a flight-exhausted Dan D'Agostino sprawling on the sofa area that the UK distributor had provided.

Why would Danny's measurements be better than Wilson audio's. This guy re-engineers everybody's speakers, and he also sells speakers, so his speakers are better then the hundreds of major and specialty manufacturers he has reviewed and modified? How does he get away with that?

 

[RickS]

He usually makes flat on axis, but there's also usually now a 3kHz off axis bunching, with no on axis compensation. Usually the "terrible" speakers sort of balance things out albeit messy response all around.

I wonder how this new "NRD" speaker will measure up and sound. I kind of feel they should really make a 3 way as well, but then again, they like their own drivers.
I don't mind that cabinet design
View attachment 423671

Looks like prettier packaging on the same tired drivers that GR already offers. After railing against metal cones when other manufacturers use them, he finds a closeout deal and suddenly they are ok. So, these are NRD inspired models within the GR brand? Since NRD has mainly been another GR marketing branch, looks like Danny felt he should give Ron some acknowledgment. Seems more synergistic than innovative in any major way.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Looks like prettier packaging on the same tired drivers that GR already offers. After railing against metal cones when other manufacturers use them, he finds a closeout deal and suddenly they are ok. So, these are NRD inspired models within the GR brand? Since NRD has mainly been another GR marketing channel, looks like Danny felt he should give Ron some acknowledgment. Seems more synergistic than innovative in any major way.

Rick, I have noticed also that he really tries to use "close out" or speakers he can get a great deal on. He then says they are awesome and amazing. When in reality they were just inexpensive speakers he could buy on the cheap. That is a big deal to me. It is normal marketing so I don't bother pointing it out all the time. I also have serious trouble in that he always uses the audiphile subjectivist terms in his post "fix" review. Like every other speaker, you really need to listen to them sto see if you like them. Having people on the internet telling you how bookshelf speakers are so amazing doesn't do it for me. His super expensive crossovers are not worth it. He can "fix" the crossovers using MUCH cheaper parts but he never shows that. I guess it is that he has a niche in the audio market and is pushing as hard as he can to make money at it. Most of the ASR crowd is not the type of person to spend big bucks on fancy parts with no proven better performance than using cheaper parts with the same values. Danny and Paul from PS Audio are what they are. Snake oil salesmen but with the down home folksy touch. Especially Paul. The Grandpa of audio.

 

[DSJR]

Why would Danny's measurements be better than Wilson audio's. This guy re-engineers everybody's speakers, and he also sells speakers, so his speakers are better then the hundreds of major and specialty manufacturers he has reviewed and modified? How does he get away with that?

Do Wilson properly 'measure' their speakers, or simply create an expensive box (with a spell wound around the reputation) which sounds 'good enough' to entertain wealthy owners with deep pockets and usually, rather large rooms, so they sit far enough away that room reflections smooth everything out? You'd be amazed how a non-neutral speaker can still sound 'impressive' despite failings (I remember the magic in late 70s UK Tangent speakers which mostly had a classic deep 'W' response generally, but still sounded so convincing in our small living spaces, the poor power handling in the bass never a huge issue...

Not all of us sit glued to the speakers listening for every musical detail - even I don't do that now, but at least my fifty year old restored thin-wall boxes present a good central image and surprise with nice depth effects in suitable recordings. Also I can't play at high levels now even if I wanted to for ear/physical-wincing reasons as well as neighbour considerations (it could well be response issues giving the depth perspectives, but they're close enough on pink and white noise to the previous known speakers I have and are still excellent for speech and timbres in general if not pushed hard, so I don't really care any more, now the 'hobby' side has faded for me).

 

[Theta]

Rick, I have noticed also that he really tries to use "close out" or speakers he can get a great deal on. He then says they are awesome and amazing. When in reality they were just inexpensive speakers he could buy on the cheap. That is a big deal to me. It is normal marketing so I don't bother pointing it out all the time. I also have serious trouble in that he always uses the audiphile subjectivist terms in his post "fix" review. Like every other speaker, you really need to listen to them sto see if you like them. Having people on the internet telling you how bookshelf speakers are so amazing doesn't do it for me. His super expensive crossovers are not worth it. He can "fix" the crossovers using MUCH cheaper parts but he never shows that. I guess it is that he has a niche in the audio market and is pushing as hard as he can to make money at it. Most of the ASR crowd is not the type of person to spend big bucks on fancy parts with no proven better performance than using cheaper parts with the same values. Danny and Paul from PS Audio are what they are. Snake oil salesmen but with the down home folksy touch. Especially Paul. The Grandpa of audio.

Spending money on redoing a crossover with expensive parts is foolish not exactly snake oil but close.
If you don't like the crossover in your speakers, rip them out and go to active crossover, analogue or digital. You will really hear the difference.
Concerning Paul of PS audio he does try hard to sell his stuff but when he is not in selling mode, you can rely on his advice, he knows more about HIFi than most on this forum he is a technician, and he invested his money into several great companies before the present one. You might want to read his book.

 

[SIY]

Concerning Paul of PS audio he does try hard to sell his stuff but when he is not in selling mode, you can rely on his advice, he knows more about HIFi than...

...my sheepdog.

But maybe not.

He is, however, a world-class expert in grifting. Much better than nearly everyone on this forum.