Danny Richie's latest...

[Purité Audio]

As far as I know.
Keith

 

[Todd68]

I have and still own his speakers. He doesn't measure them properly and I have shown this. Here is an example you could have easily found: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...research-lgk-2-0-speaker-review-a-joke.34783/

This is proper measurement:

This is not:

It only starts at 200 Hz and is heavily smoothed as I have marked. How do you hide problems in frequency response? Smooth them! How do you avoid showing issues in bass response? Don't show that response at all!

Danny doesn't show measurements for distortion. If he had, he would have realized the failure in the design:

86 dBSPL should be walk in the park for any speaker you buy let alone anything called "little giant killer."

Danny loves to show waterfall tests results. Here is mine:

It shows many resonances or as Danny calls "stored energy." His measurements are this:

Much cleaner, yes? Or is it? Here is my measurement again if I change the parameters to hide the resonances:

In listening tests, this was the worst performing speaker I have ever tested. I suggest you watch the video I did on this failing design, both objectively and subjectively:

All in all, I must have spent over $2,000 on his products for testing. All paid at retail prices with Danny not providing a cent of discount let alone industry accommodation pricing.

We also have the disaster which was the X-Voce. Speaker that has massive cancellation in upper bass/midrange: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...v123-gr-research-x-voce-speaker-review.49563/

Not only this, but the man seriously lacks ethics. You can read the above review thread on how he misled his customers on real problems of that speakers. In a thread about it on another forum, he repeatedly deleted my and other posts and eventually had the admin completely delete the thread. That forum sells that part of their site to companies and they can do whatever they want. To this day, he has not owned up to serious design flaws in that speaker, not has compensated anyone with a fix.

Don't go make claims like this or grab uninformed talking points. We speak with evidence.

I’m not sure how you’re suggesting to measure for this, but when I measure at listening position, there’s no resonance at all in the midrange and treble. The waterfall graph is clean. Is this a measurement right in front of the speakers?

 

[amirm]

Yes, you measure in the near-field as to lower the impact of the room. Room reflections otherwise dwarf much of the variations in response.

 

[Ktacos]

I’m not sure how you’re suggesting to measure for this, but when I measure at listening position, there’s no resonance at all in the midrange and treble. The waterfall graph is clean. Is this a measurement right in front of the speakers?

There's lots of info on here and other sites on how to measure a speaker and why you need to minimize/eliminate as many boundary interactions as you can to increase your datas accuracy.

 

[Todd68]

There's lots of info on here and other sites on how to measure a speaker and why you need to minimize/eliminate as many boundary interactions as you can to increase your datas accuracy.

Thanks, so the waterfall is meaningless when measured from listening position. And here I thought my speakers were awesome. LOL

Also, if you can’t change the resonance of the speakers, I think I’m better off not spending any time on this. I’m not trying to learn how to design.

 

[amirm]

Thanks, so the waterfall is meaningless when measured from listening position.

Waterfall is mostly useless regardless of what you are doing. Frequency response shows the resonances in the form of peaks already and is not subject to all the parameters in waterfall graphs as I showed earlier.

 

[Todd68]

Yes, yes and yes.

Here’s a question, why is there so many different driver types and quality levels when most of them (even the budget level ones) could be implemented in a design and achieve pretty good frequency response. If it’s done with low cost drivers and measures the same as a design with the very best quality drivers, at normal listening levels shouldn’t the two models sound the same?

I highly doubt it, but some here seem to think that the frequency response is mostly all that matters, no?

 

[Jim Taylor]

I highly doubt it, but some here seem to think that the frequency response is mostly all that matters, no?

Loudspeakers have many characteristics. Frequency response seems to be the one that is primary in peoples' assessment.

BTW ... "mostly all that matters" is contradictory, isn't it?

Jim

 

[Purité Audio]

Here’s a question, why is there so many different driver types and quality levels when most of them (even the budget level ones) could be implemented in a design and achieve pretty good frequency response. If it’s done with low cost drivers and measures the same as a design with the very best quality drivers, at normal listening levels shouldn’t the two models sound the same?

I highly doubt it, but some here seem to think that the frequency response is mostly all that matters, no?

Implementation and design is far more important than the constituent parts.
A friend who works for Tymphany ( Chinese giant) told me that every single driver they make is tested even the most inexpensive.
Keith

 

[Ktacos]

Here’s a question, why is there so many different driver types and quality levels when most of them (even the budget level ones) could be implemented in a design and achieve pretty good frequency response. If it’s done with low cost drivers and measures the same as a design with the very best quality drivers, at normal listening levels shouldn’t the two models sound the same?

I highly doubt it, but some here seem to think that the frequency response is mostly all that matters, no?

Companies have to keep people buying their stuff to stay afloat. Developing fancy driver tech and materials is one way to do that. Sometimes that new tech translates to something that sounds better, but most of the time it doesn't. You're correct that one can achieve truly exceptional audio reproduction with very inexpensive drivers, but "look at the crazy performance we got out of this $20 mid" doesn't sell speakers.

 

[Todd68]

And that would be what a layman would do, rather than someone informed of research which clearly shows why testing for tonality is superior in mono vs stereo:

Right for tonality, but if you’re trying to judge a stereo speaker pair for overall satisfaction level, this one speaker test won’t let you hear enough of the performance. It’s flawed and incomplete. And I don’t believe (despite what others wrote in this thread) that just because one pair measures better than another it’s guaranteed the “better” pair will provide a better overall listening experience. Some speakers can image better, provide better transient response and dynamics, plus better detail even if the frequency response and off axis isn’t as perfected as say KEF, which I owned.

I experienced it myself KEF (measured great in tests) vs my others models it was boring and didn’t entice me to want listen much. With the GR model I own now, I spend too much time listening, probably not good in a way cause I get less of the more important things done.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Right for tonality, but if you’re trying to judge a stereo speaker pair for overall satisfaction level, this one speaker test won’t let you hear enough of the performance. It’s flawed and incomplete. And I don’t believe (despite what others wrote in this thread) that just because one pair measures better than another it’s guaranteed the “better” pair will provide a better overall listening experience. Some speakers can image better, provide better transient response and dynamics, plus better detail even if the frequency response and off axis isn’t as perfected as say KEF, which I owned.

I experienced it myself KEF (measured great in tests) vs my others models it was boring and didn’t entice me to want listen much. With the GR model I own now, I spend too much time listening, probably not good in a way cause I get less of the more important things done.

It looks like you've realized that neutral-measuring speakers aren't to your liking, and that's perfectly okay. It's your personal preference.

 

[Mart68]

It looks like you've realized that neutral-measuring speakers aren't to your liking, and that's perfectly okay. It's your personal preference.

The perennial problem of confusing personal preference and objective performance evaluation.

'I like these speakers so they can't possibly measure poorly! The tests must be wrongly conducted or missing something important.'

Nope. Just it's just your personal preference. Live with it.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

The perennial problem of confusing personal preference and objective performance evaluation.

'I like these speakers so they can't possibly measure poorly! The tests must be wrongly conducted or missing something important.'

Nope. Just it's just your personal preference. Live with it.

One thing I'll never understand is why this is even a thing in the first place.
It's completely okay to have preferences that differ from the majority. Everyone is entitled to their own tastes and opinions. Just avoid asserting that your choice is the only correct one while dismissing others as wrong. Many people seem to enjoy B&W speakers, for example. While they're not my preference, I don't go out of my way to tell them they're wrong. -I might ask how and why, simply out of curiosity and confusion about it.. (Just kidding! )

 

[Mart68]

One thing I'll never understand is why this is even a thing in the first place.

Lack of basic knowledge?

Not so long ago I suggested some speakers to someone who had very specific requirements.

He found a subjective review of them, the review was damning.

So I found him another subjective review that was full of praise for them.

It didn't change his mind. I said: Just trial them, you can always send them back if you don't like.

But no. Some men you just can't reach.

 

[Todd68]

Lack of basic knowledge?

Not so long ago I suggested some speakers to someone who had very specific requirements.

He found a subjective review of them, the review was damning.

So I found him another subjective review that was full of praise for them.

It didn't change his mind. I said: Just trial them, you can always send them back if you don't like.

But no. Some men you just can't reach.

I don’t think my speakers measure poorly, just not as good as the top models promoted here. It’s the attitude expressed from some here that just because a designer’s methods aren’t the same or lacking compared to a big company like JBL, REVEL etc, with state of the art testing facility they don’t deserve to be considered. I’d bet there’s talented people who DIY in a garage that can build excellent sounding speakers.

And then those polls posted on ASR reviews, people vote using only the measurement data and probably most never listened to or owned the speakers, or am I wrong assuming that?

 

[Beave]

I don’t think my speakers measure poorly, just not as good as the top models promoted here. It’s the attitude expressed from some here that just because a designer’s methods aren’t the same or lacking compared to a big company like JBL, REVEL etc, with state of the art testing facility they don’t deserve to be considered. I’d bet there’s talented people who DIY in a garage that can build excellent sounding speakers.

And then those polls posted on ASR reviews, people vote using only the measurement data and probably most never listened to or owned the speakers, or am I wrong assuming that?

Absolutely there are talented people who DIY in a garage and can build excellent sounding speakers.

And even more shocking, some of them do it successfully without resorting to selling snake oil.

 

[Purité Audio]

I don’t think my speakers measure poorly, just not as good as the top models promoted here. It’s the attitude expressed from some here that just because a designer’s methods aren’t the same or lacking compared to a big company like JBL, REVEL etc, with state of the art testing facility they don’t deserve to be considered. I’d bet there’s talented people who DIY in a garage that can build excellent sounding speakers.

And then those polls posted on ASR reviews, people vote using only the measurement data and probably most never listened to or owned the speakers, or am I wrong assuming that?

But why would you choose a second rate product?
Keith

 

[Mart68]

I don’t think my speakers measure poorly, just not as good as the top models promoted here. It’s the attitude expressed from some here that just because a designer’s methods aren’t the same or lacking compared to a big company like JBL, REVEL etc, with state of the art testing facility they don’t deserve to be considered. I’d bet there’s talented people who DIY in a garage that can build excellent sounding speakers.

And then those polls posted on ASR reviews, people vote using only the measurement data and probably most never listened to or owned the speakers, or am I wrong assuming that?

I also don't use text-book measuring speakers but I don't think that's a big deal.

Voting on speakers here is solely for judging the objective performance achieved so there's no need to listen to the speakers.

I wouldn't read too much into the voting. Some will vote on a value for money basis, others (like me) vote without taking the price into account. Really, the voting doesn't mean much, it's just a bit of fun and a way for the forum members to interact.

The reviews here just provide factual information, you can do with that what you will. Ignore it, take it into account when shopping for new speakers, or use it as the sole arbiter of what to get.

The important thing is that it is factual. Not some old man's waffling review about the 'emotion', which provides you with nothing of any real value.

 

[Todd68]

But why would you choose a second rate product?
Keith

It’s not second rate and probably put your overpriced offerings to shame. Spare me from this arrogant nonsense.

Now bring up bunch of charts and “prove” me wrong. Meanwhile I’ll sit here and enjoy my mediocre speakers.

And by the way, if GR Research is just snake oil and half as d designed, you’d think you could just ignore it and quit the complaining. Move on, you all are so smart, I’d seems a waste of time.