Danny at GR getting bad Talk Back from many of his viewers

[RickS]

As I went to do some soldering recently for another project, I realized that Danny’s mods almost always require soldering (certainly any that adds tube connectors). Soldering is not a skill that many folks (notably younger ones) have. If so, this likely severely limits the market for these upgrades. If you are not skilled at soldering, you may just create a bigger mess than you are fixing. It is even less likely that most folks are equipped to verify a suggested mod was done correctly…

So my Loki analogy may have more merit than I originally thought. These upgrades are likely just fodder to supply a constant stream of content so Danny has something to sustain his youtube audience and revenues. If so, this upgrade stuff is all about maintaining an illusion of being a speaker savior for the masses. In this scenario, it does not matter whether the upgrades are technically robust, just good enough for serving up his promised weekly sermon. It is more about the brand and his reputation. He can ignore us and with the public’s short memory, simply move on to the next (likely) trumped-up example of how other vendors are shortchanging audio consumers. Stay vigilant!

 

[IPunchCholla]

As I went to do some soldering recently for another project, I realized that Danny’s mods almost always require soldering (certainly any that adds tube connectors). Soldering is not a skill that many folks (notably younger ones) have. If so, this likely severely limits the market for these upgrades. If you are not skilled at soldering, you may just create a bigger mess than you are fixing. It is even less likely that most folks are equipped to verify a suggested mod was done correctly…

As someone unskilled at soldering and using DIY to learn about circuits, I was just thinking about this yesterday when I finished-ish a project. I briefly considered how I could measure the device to see just how much my bad soldering job degraded the signal, but decided to just move on as I’m not planning on using the project for anything other than education and skill building.

Previously I did build custom crossovers for an old set of speakers. Again mostly for educational reasons. I did before and after measurements and my crossovers did measurably better than the old ones, smoothing the frequency response and gaining me about 5dB in headroom for my PEQ. No change in distortion. But I couldn’t really hear a difference.

So I guess I’m wondering, given your comment, just how bad a soldering job would have to be to have audible degradation without causing the circuit to fail?

 

[RickS]

As someone unskilled at soldering and using DIY to learn about circuits, I was just thinking about this yesterday when I finished-ish a project. I briefly considered how I could measure the device to see just how much my bad soldering job degraded the signal, but decided to just move on as I’m not planning on using the project for anything other than education and skill building.

Previously I did build custom crossovers for an old set of speakers. Again mostly for educational reasons. I did before and after measurements and my crossovers did measurably better than the old ones, smoothing the frequency response and gaining me about 5dB in headroom for my PEQ. No change in distortion. But I couldn’t really hear a difference.

So I guess I’m wondering, given your comment, just how bad a soldering job would have to be to have audible degradation without causing the circuit to fail?

Really is a broad question as you could use too little solder, too much solder, too little heat, etc. If the solder joints seem mechanically solid and the test for zero resistance, can be pretty sure they are not going to affect the sound. Loose joints can cause distortion and of course open connections are likely to have obvious audible issues with frequency response. Cold solder joints can add resistance and might be more difficult to detect. These problems would be easier to hear with test tones if you do not have a mic. Even better if you have some known baseline to use or compare one speaker with another.

Hope this helps a bit. Am sure there are more details available on the web for testing solder connections. Have not checked though so if you look and still have questions, let me know.

 

[amirm]

That's a good point. Soldering is even harder when dealing with these high thermal mass components in a crossover. You need to have the proper soldering iron, tools and techniques to do it right. I have actually had speakers sent to me that came from factor with cold solder joints and such that had become disconnected!

 

[RickS]

Another example of why you should not trust Danny's measurements. However, this one appears to be from a supplier although is posted to the GR website...

Since Amir's ugly measurements exposed the LGK 2.0, there has been a concerted GR effort to repurpose this (supposedly full range) driver. Here is the quote from the driver webpage "The frequency response is very smooth and the spectral decay is exceptionally clean. The vocal range is very clean and natural rivaling any driver. The highs are also very smooth with no harshness, ringing, or break up." Once you look the frequency response plot, it is wholly unbelievable that these claims could be for this driver.

There is now both a 2-way bookshelf, center channel and a tower speaker promoting this allegedly "smooth" driver. While Danny's oversmoothed measurements hide this driver's nasty resonances, the above shows one clearly at 2 kHz (right in the middle of where our hearing is most sensitive). It also starts to get ugly again around 8 kHz. While claims are made of exceptional clarity, these resonances can only result in exceptionally poor performance. Buyer beware!

p.s.

The repurposing of the LGK driver has been to mate it with a 5 inch woofer that has no posted specs/measurements and looks like a clearance sale driver from the days of tube tv's. See for yourself...

 

[TimoJ]

 

[Deleted member 21219]

No more Danny clickbait for me.

Jim

 

[thegeton]

No more Danny clickbait for me.

Jim

I'm not clicking on it either. Don't want to contribute to his click count and there's only so much "good old boy" BS I can take.

 

[restorer-john]

He’s still using a circa 1998 Clio PCI card based measurement system running on a 486. And a VGA cable connecting to the CRT monitor.

It's his main gaming rig for Need For Speed, Doom II and Legend of Zelda.

I'd always thought the early Clios were ISA, not PCI. Danny must have a 'modern' one- probably running that new OS, Win98...

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Danny's getting so much beef he's forgotten what hunger feels like..

 

[RickS]

Ok, I’ll share as I plugged my nose, muted the sound and used closed captioning…

This latest Jamo video appears to be an rehash of the first one. Maybe why he called it Round 2 although is the third post. The second one was misleadingly claimed it was about resolving the earlier issues. In this one, Danny simply leaves out the ugly output mismatch from the earlier one. Looks to have been done to allow him to claim he fixed enough to post the upgrade kit.

 

[fpitas]

Danny really cannot tell what sort of ”defect” he may be “fixing”.

Oh, he knows. The viewers' money is not in Danny's pocket...yet.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Ok, I’ll share as I plugged my nose, muted the sound and used closed captioning…

This latest Jamo video appears to be an rehash of the first one. Danny simply leaves out the ugly output mismatch from the earlier one. Looks to have been done to allow him to post the upgrade kit.

I watched it too. And it's clearly made so he can sell his "upgrade" kit for it again.

 

[Mart68]

Ok, I’ll share as I plugged my nose, muted the sound and used closed captioning…

This latest Jamo video appears to be an rehash of the first one. Danny simply leaves out the ugly output mismatch from the earlier one. Looks to have been done to allow him to post the upgrade kit.

His accent is the best thing about his videos.

I did watch the first ten minutes and he does talk some sense until he gets into criticising the brass binding posts, use of steel screws, and that the inductors are only glued to the board and could 'fly off' - and then I started losing interest.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

His accent is the best thing about his videos.

I did watch the first ten minutes and he does talk some sense until he gets into criticising the brass binding posts, use of steel screws, and that the inductors are only glued to the board and could 'fly off' - and then I started losing interest.

And that he can't tell the difference between metal (magnesium) and plastic cone on the Seas Excel driver..

 

[Mart68]

And that he can't tell the difference between metal (magnesium) and plastic cone on the Seas Excel driver..

And that...

 

[MAB]

And that he can't tell the difference between metal (magnesium) and plastic cone on the Seas Excel driver..

He can't even do his own research:

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Audio/Archive-Stereo-Review-IDX/IDX/90s/Stereo-Review-1997-02-OCR-Page-0042.pdf

The woofer is a 6 1/2 inch cone driver in a vented enclosure, with the port on the rear of the cabinet. Formed of die-cast magnesium (very light and rigid), the cone is suspended by a natural rubber surround. Instead of the usual dust cap, there is a solid copper phase plug (resembling the front of an artillery shell or missile) extending forward from the center of the woofer's magnet structure. According to the manufacturer, the advantage of this feature is improved efficiency and more effective removal of heat from the magnet system. The woofer frame is also made of die-cast magnesium, which is said to provides superior rigidity and better control of the speaker's magnetic field than other materials.

He makes a big deal out of the OEM drivers supplied by Seas, just shows he has no idea what he is talking about. The frames look like the cast frames on early Seas Excel drivers, (non-magnetic so he should be happy, right?) The cones are magnesium, just like Seas made them. I watched him flailing the wires around worried about all sorts of things, did he ever address dry ferrofluid in this video?
If he learns anything, perhaps he could start marketing GR Research ferrofluid upgrade for old speakers.

 

[D2013]

Really is a broad question as you could use too little solder, too much solder, too little heat, etc. If the solder joints seem mechanically solid and the test for zero resistance, can be pretty sure they are not going to affect the sound. Loose joints can cause distortion and of course open connections are likely to have obvious audible issues with frequency response. Cold solder joints can add resistance and might be more difficult to detect. These problems would be easier to hear with test tones if you do not have a mic. Even better if you have some known baseline to use or compare one speaker with another.

Another important thing when it comes to solder, is getting the right type.

 

[RickS]

He can't even do his own research:

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Audio/Archive-Stereo-Review-IDX/IDX/90s/Stereo-Review-1997-02-OCR-Page-0042.pdf

He makes a big deal out of the OEM drivers supplied by Seas, just shows he has no idea what he is talking about. The frames look like the cast frames on early Seas Excel drivers, non-magnetic so he should be happy, right?). The cones are magnesium, just like Seas made them. I watched him flailing the wires around worried about all sorts of things, did he ever address dry ferrofluid in this video?
If he learns anything, perhaps he could start marketing GR Research ferrofluid upgrade for old speakers.

Thanks for sharing the Jamo review. Looks as though Danny missed the cabinet bracing as it is mentioned as well. My hypothesis about the purpose of his upgrade videos seems to hold. The upgrades are more about a GR content stream than much real value.

 

[MAB]

Thanks for sharing the Jamo review. Looks as though Danny missed the cabinet bracing as it is mentioned as well. My hypothesis about the purpose of his upgrade videos seems to hold. The upgrades are more about a content stream than much real value.

Yes. He adds no value. And he missed or ignored or doesn't understand ferro-fluid in a vintage speaker:

The 1-inch soft-dome tweeter, like so much of the Concert 8, is also unconventional. Its fabric diaphragm is treated for optimum rigidity and damping, and it is vented into a damped chamber. The voice coil, which is wound with silver wire, works with a double magnet system; it is damped and cooled with a low-viscosity magnetic oil. The cast-zinc baffle area in which the tweeter is mounted is slightly concave (horn -shaped), which is said to provide an optimum transition to the woofer.

I also note that the Jamo's are built with silver VC wire. Not that it matters, but if I was the paying owner of these, I would really want the tweeters to work as originally intended, if only to satisfy my OCD.

Here is the rest of the review links since reading about these classic speakers more fun than hearing Danny drone on...

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Audio/Archive-Stereo-Review-IDX/IDX/90s/Stereo-Review-1997-02-OCR-Page-0042.pdf

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Audio/Archive-Stereo-Review-IDX/IDX/90s/Stereo-Review-1997-02-OCR-Page-0043.pdf