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Danny at GR getting bad Talk Back from many of his viewers

I have no problem trusting Danny. Especially when he proves the guts of these speakers are made of the cheapest junk and the proper parts hardly cost a few dollars more. I have no sympathy, whatsoever for Corporate Agenda antics, fraud and dishonesty and I am very grateful for GR Research pulling the wool out of our oversold eyes. The magazines are nothing but sales ads, pushing the same stuff from their own country.
It's exciting to hear Danny expose the truth. I can't wait until I can afford the Bully's.

I went back and now compared several of his measurements to well known measurements, from ASR, Erin, and Stereophile.

Often his are mildly close in some ways, but then diverge on the treble end. I think we have a case of a guy, simply WRONG, but not able to say he has been wrong and basing his upgrades on semi faulty measurements.

Maybe nothing intentional for sure, but just can not admit he is probably wrong.
I mean how can you improve something, if what you measure is not what others are getting?

But I also get, how can he admit some measurements are wrong, when he is selling upgrade products based ON those measurements.
 
Yep very likely this is the case here:

Great link, thank you. I do wonder about this statement (especially given they sell ferrofluid):

"My tweeters do not have ferrofluid, will they profit from ferrofluid?
Yes, applying ferrofluid will increase the power handling of your tweeters as well as improve the sound quality, as long as you apply the correct amount of ferrofluid and the correct quality."

Is it really so straightforward?
 
I went back and now compared several of his measurements to well known measurements, from ASR, Erin, and Stereophile.

Often his are mildly close in some ways, but then diverge on the treble end. I think we have a case of a guy, simply WRONG, but not able to say he has been wrong and basing his upgrades on semi faulty measurements.

Maybe nothing intentional for sure, but just can not admit he is probably wrong.
I mean how can you improve something, if what you measure is not what others are getting?

But I also get, how can he admit some measurements are wrong, when he is selling upgrade products based ON those measurements.
Yeah, his "upgrade kit" is now a recipe for disaster..
 
Great link, thank you. I do wonder about this statement (especially given they sell ferrofluid):

"My tweeters do not have ferrofluid, will they profit from ferrofluid?
Yes, applying ferrofluid will increase the power handling of your tweeters as well as improve the sound quality, as long as you apply the correct amount of ferrofluid and the correct quality."

Is it really so straightforward?
No. It does improve power handling but if the tweeter was not designed with it then there's really no point in adding it.

IMO it was always just a marketing thing anyway.
 
I have no problem trusting Danny. Especially when he proves the guts of these speakers are made of the cheapest junk and the proper parts hardly cost a few dollars more. I have no sympathy, whatsoever for Corporate Agenda antics, fraud and dishonesty and I am very grateful for GR Research pulling the wool out of our oversold eyes. The magazines are nothing but sales ads, pushing the same stuff from their own country.
It's exciting to hear Danny expose the truth. I can't wait until I can afford the Bully's.

I am truly glad you decided to create an account here, about 3 hours after my initial post, and started with such a great first post!

((Sarcasm))
 
I have no problem trusting Danny. Especially when he proves the guts of these speakers are made of the cheapest junk and the proper parts hardly cost a few dollars more. I have no sympathy, whatsoever for Corporate Agenda antics, fraud and dishonesty and I am very grateful for GR Research pulling the wool out of our oversold eyes. The magazines are nothing but sales ads, pushing the same stuff from their own country.
It's exciting to hear Danny expose the truth. I can't wait until I can afford the Bully's.
What truth?
That Danny is going to charge a customer with worn-out tweeter for a new crossover?
How much you want to bet that Danny charges more to mess the speaker up than the entire cost of replacing the aged tweeters?
 

"Danny nearly lost his mind"

I'd argue his mind has been lost for a long,long time now.
OT , last year's best song.:D

The higher the mountain, the harder Danny fall
Looking for blood at the scene of the crime

Danny has been running in circles or nothing at all
For a long, long, long time

Boxing at shadows and listening at doors
Pushing the buttons and pulling the blinds

Danny haven't been honest or clever or sure
In a long, long, long time
It's been a long, long, long time



 
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Danny needs to dismantle the tweeter, clean out the dried ferrofluid from the VC and the gap, replace with new ferrofluid and retest.

Oh, and then do a whole new apology video. :facepalm:
Yep very likely this is the case here:

Danny should know that.

Incidentally, an old saying. If you buy old speakers with ferrofluid tweeters make sure that you are old enough so you don't hear higher frequencies.;)

Like here, where the midrange was connected the wrong way and he forgot to mention that:

Rookie mistake of not testing if it's the fault.:oops:
 
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I have no sympathy, whatsoever for Corporate Agenda antics, fraud and dishonesty and I am very grateful for GR Research pulling the wool out of our oversold eyes. The magazines are nothing but sales ads, pushing the same stuff from their own country.
It's exciting to hear Danny expose the truth. I can't wait until I can afford the Bully's.
The problem with Danny is that he doesn't hold back when it comes to criticizing competing products (and sometimes he's even right), but at the same time he praises his own products to the skies.

The fact that Danny presents himself as a "truth teller", as you say yourself, means that consumers with little experience in the field of loudspeaker reviews tend to trust him and lose their critical distance to GR research products.

As a small example of this, let's take a look at the flagship speakers NX-treme and NX-otica. Danny writes about these speakers on his website:
The NX-Otica is a pinnacle of open baffle loudspeaker designs. This model excels in all areas from top to bottom, and can compete with or be compared with any speaker at any price point.
This is completely normal marketing blah blah from a manufacturer and, as we will see in a moment, on the opposite side of "truth".
Because Danny can establish himself as a "truth teller", his customers trust him in particular and even defend his products against criticism - every manufacturer's dream.

Unfortunately, I have to elaborate a little on what special characteristic an open baffle (OB) has, as many people don't have the basics at hand.
First we need to establish what characterizes an OB loudspeaker? Its special radiation - dipole radiation.

This is characterized by the fact that the lateral radiation of the loudspeaker, even in the low frequency range, has a reduced sound pressure level.
In contrast to "normal" loudspeaker designs that radiate omnidirectional towards lower frequencies.

1699188580679.png 1699189819812.png
The frequency response (FR) of a woofer without crossover in a flat baffle (a typical OB design) would look as follows with optimally flat on-axis FR (normalized to on-axis FR). For comparison on the right side the typical radiation of a "normal boxed" speaker (by varying the width and depth of the cabinet, the radiation can be improved, especially in the 400-600Hz range.):
1699190686742.png 1699193411297.png
Up to around 1kHz (this would be the highest crossover frequency to the midrange or tweeter), this OB speaker example exhibits a typical dipole radiation pattern with strongest sound extinction at 90°. SPL increases again at listening angles >90°.
In a typical OB design, the lateral reflections (usually 40°-60° FR) are even and significantly reduced in SPL - this is particularly advantageous in "unfavorable" listening rooms.

Now let's take a look at the measurements Danny has published for the NX-Otica. In the following I assume that the measurements show the 0°, 10°, 20°, 30°, 40° FR (Danny unfortunately never specifies at which angle the shown FR are).
1699191956622.png
I think you can recognize without experience that there is something wrong with the expected dipole radiation. To be able to better compare the measurements of the "pinnacle of open baffle loudspeaker design" with the typical radiation of an OB speaker shown above, we take Danny's measurements and normalize them to the on-axis FR as well (same scaling as above).
1699192184310.png
In this diagram you can easily see that this loudspeaker does not show any dipole radiation at all - it's a disaster. In fact, the radiation is much more uneven than with a "normal boxed" speaker. The lateral reflections that reach the ear are not only extremely uneven, but are also significantly increased in the SPL in the range of the resonances (compared to the on-axis FR).

In the 200-400Hz range, the NX-Otica already shows a higher SPL at 40° than on axis. This is pretty much the opposite of what a dipole radiating speaker should do.
The V-frame shaped baffle of the NX-Otica speaker causes resonances which completely mess up the radiation up to 1.3kHz (when the tweeter gradually takes over) with a couple of resonances caused by the woofers and mid-woofers resonating with the V-frame baffle.
If Danny were to publish full measurements, the problems would be even clearer, as they become more pronounced as the angle of radiation increases.

Don't get me wrong, the speaker can sound quite good under certain conditions (and the hearing is able to adapt to unusual situations), but in terms of an OB speaker with dipole radiation, it is a bad design and not the "pinnacle of open baffle loudspeaker designs" - more details about "Open baffle speaker pitfalls" is here.

Sorry, I had to go into a little more detail to explain the problem with Danny's "truth teller" narrative with arguments (LS design is a bit complex, but I wanted to show real facts not only opinion). The situation is similar with statements about "cable sound", capacitors, binding posts,....
Someone who is beating up his competitors, even if sometimes rightly so, is not automatically trustworthy when it comes to his own products (that is why independent assessments are so important). Quite a few people seem to forget that.

Update: Got rid of my "mental problem" that always writes "cardioid" instead of "dipole" ;)
 
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OT , last year's best song.:D

The higher the mountain, the harder Danny fall
Looking for blood at the scene of the crime

Danny has been running in circles or nothing at all
For a long, long, long time

Boxing at shadows and listening at doors
Pushing the buttons and pulling the blinds

Danny haven't been honest or clever or sure
In a long, long, long time
It's been a long, long, long time



OK I laughed

Acting on your worst behaviour
Turn your back on laws of physics
Everybody wants to have great profit margins...
 
Incidentally, an old saying. If you buy old speakers with ferrofluid tweeters make sure they are old enough so you don't hear higher frequencies.;)
Or is it that you should make sure you're old enough so you don't hear higher frequencies? :)
 
The V-frame shaped baffle of the NX-Otica speaker causes resonances which completely mess up the radiation up to 1.3kHz (when the tweeter gradually takes over) with a couple of resonances caused by the woofers and mid-woofers resonating with the V-frame baffle.
What is ironic is that Danny always complains about "stored energy" in waterfall graph. Yet here is the response of the NX-Otica:


nx-treme-csd_orig.jpeg


Look at all those long tails. They all correspond to these peaks which as you say, are numerous resonances. I actually don't remember Danny showing the graph for any speaker he has "fixed" that is this bad! Someone should send the NX-Otica to him to upgrade. :D And this is a speaker kit that costs over $3000.
 
Those resonances give it character :facepalm:
 
Someone should send the NX-Otica to him to upgrade. :D
This someone should send the speaker to you, so we all can get some objective data ;)

Danny's frequency response measurements with 1/3 oct smoothing (and additional indirect smoothing by using "gated measurements") shows a "very softened speaker reality" compared to the Klippel NFS measurements - as for CTA-2034-A compliant measurements, only smoothing not greater then 1/12 1/20 oct is allowed.
 
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This someone should send the speaker to you, so we all can get some objective data ;)

Danny's frequency response measurements with 1/3 oct smoothing (and additional indirect smoothing by using "gated measurements") shows a "very softened speaker reality" compared to the Klippel NFS measurements - as for CTA-2034-A compliant measurements, only smoothing not greater then 1/12 oct is allowed.
A very minor quibble :)

cta2034_freq_resolution.png
 
A very minor quibble :)
Thanks for the correction! Not minor, it's pretty crucial to quote a standard correctly and we live in a world where there are idiots who can't even get that right anymore ;)
This makes the point I was trying to make even clearer.

I confused the allowed smoothing with the impedance measurement of CTA-2034:
1699223092399.png
 
I knew the Concert 8 and larger 11 fairly well, although they're twenty five or so year old models. I didn't listen to the vid, but if that response he shows is real with a rapid hf fall-off, there's something VERY wrong there, as both Concert models had a very slight 'loudness switch' kind of presentation I recall, which was charming rather than excessive, the tweeter sparkling gently as many Jamo speakers did.

Interesting the state of ferro-fluid tweeters, as some seem to stand thirty years of use with no obvious change where others seem to 'dry put' and lose output.

I do hope Danny realises the age of this model he's dismantling. Oh - and if he's flattening on-axis and causing dispersion issues, why do you think that many speakers have a lower kHz recess, especially when the tweeters simply can't be taken very low in frequency to crossover. Always a compromise and not sure a horn/waveguide is always the exact answer, but then I'm not a designer with detailed measurement possibilities ;)
 
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