Danny at GR getting bad Talk Back from many of his viewers

[Mazzeroph]

Did anybody do NRD's audio test for the Uberbuss? I couldn't figure out a good way to play the files directly into my speaker system so I listened through my phone on some Bose Bluetooth headphones. On one of the tracks the main vocals shifted from center right to center. Anybody else?

 

[Ordin Aryguy]

So ears are better than any electronic instrumentation!? Interesting concept... and this is a concept touted by far more than the golden ear at GR Research.

Power line conditioners that clean up EMI/RFI. Power cords that are shielded against RF... Great ideas. Right? Well they would be great ideas if us mere mortals could actually hear above 20KHz. Through their many claims, it's obvious that the golden ears actually do posess hearing at that level, though.

I'll try to go along with their assertions for a minute. If, in fact, removing RF (completely inaudible to the flat earthers) from power lines and speaker cables is able to be audibly noted in the sound eminating from the speakers, then that infers the golden ears can actually hear RF. Amazing stuff right there!

So if the golden ears can hear frequencies well above those of us mortals, and with an accuity greater than that which can be measured by any electronic instrumentation then they truly are super-humans, and we're very, very standard human beings. Better hearing than can be measured by electronic instrumentation must bring along a host of incredible abilities and skills. Such as:

1) Tracking flying insects in complete darkness, like bats, with echo-location.

2) Placing their ear against a pregnant woman's stomach and sketching a perfect likeness of the fetus in-utero. A likeness more detailed than that of the sonogram, which is an electronic measuring instrument, and therefor inferior to their ears.

3) Look up at a cloud-covered sky and track airplanes and satellites, again with the ability to sketch detailed likeness of both. And the ability to discern greater soundstage in audio also infers that the golden ears can accurately measure the distance between planes in the sky using only their hearing. Their ability to hear RF is well established, as told to the world by them, and has greater discrimination abilities than any radar system, because of course radar is yet another inferior electronic measurement device.

The US Navy could certainly benefit from placing a couple golden ears on each of their submarines as their hearing is better than the inferior electronic measurement devices that the Navy calls sonar, too.

No comic book author to date has yet dreamed up characters with these abilities. If you happen to know any comic book writers, please send them to GR Research to get more details on these abilities for concepts for their next superheroes.


Edit: fixed the spelling of sonar. Arthritic fingers. Getting old isn't for sissys.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

So ears are better than any electronic instrumentation!? Interesting concept... and this is a concept touted by far more than the golden ear at GR Research.

This is without a doubt the most fundamental false belief held by those who reject ASR and measurements more broadly and its durability keeps the snake oil industry alive and well

 

[Andysu]

This is without a doubt the most fundamental false belief held by those who reject ASR and measurements more broadly and its durability keeps the snake oil industry alive and well

 

[Doodski]

View attachment 496667

Between you and @Ordin Aryguy this is becoming hilarious. The doing by ear ultra-sound on the pregnant woman was the breaking point where I was really chuckling.

 

[fieldcar]

I haven't been around for a while but I saw the NRD video and couldn't handle it. I had to fire up deltawave and check out the A-B for his clips.

It's almost like there's a -10dB notch in the B-clip at 222Hz. Of course people would notice.

I only clipped and aligned the samples and normalized to LUFS.

Anyway, very fishy. There's also oddities above 6K.

 

[RickS]

I haven't been around for a while but I saw the NRD video and couldn't handle it. I had to fire up deltawave and check out the A-B for his clips.

It's almost like there's a -10dB notch in the B-clip at 222Hz. Of course people would notice.

I only clipped and aligned the samples and normalized to LUFS.

Anyway, very fishy. There's also oddities above 6K.

View attachment 496856View attachment 496857View attachment 496858

I heard the NRD test was really bad science and only proved that Ron does not know science. His samples are recordings of playback via speakers in a room. Does he measure the noise floor? If he did and kept going, it is a bigger joke. Any or all of his tracks could be contaminated by plumbing, HVAC noise, birds or any number of outside sounds (birds, road noises, etc.).

Of course, what else might add more street cred to compare music files, let's use AI!

Not going to waste any more space here on this debacle.

 

[Mazzeroph]

I heard the NRD test was really bad science and only proved that Ron does not know science. His samples are recordings of playback via speakers in a room. Does he measure the noise floor? If he did and kept going, it is a bigger joke. Any or all of his tracks could be contaminated by plumbing, HVAC noise, birds or any number of outside sounds (birds, road noises, etc.).

Of course, what else might add more street cred to compare music files, let's use AI!

Not going to waste any more space here on this debacle.

Isn't Ron's listening room built separate from his house with it's own power meter? Rick S, I usually like your posts because you typically stay above the fray and keep people honest and grounded - why don't you just do the test?

I haven't been around for a while but I saw the NRD video and couldn't handle it. I had to fire up deltawave and check out the A-B for his clips.

It's almost like there's a -10dB notch in the B-clip at 222Hz. Of course people would notice.

I only clipped and aligned the samples and normalized to LUFS.

Anyway, very fishy. There's also oddities above 6K.

View attachment 496856View attachment 496857View attachment 496858

Are you accusing him of fraud? Do you doubt Ron's sincerity? He goes into great detail to explain his methodology.

As somebody who finds many of the people in this forum as obnoxious as the subjectivists I stick around because the value the science you all are bringing to the industry is profound. However, I find it interesting that nobody in this thread actually did Ron's test.

 

[fieldcar]

Not going to waste any more space here on this debacle.

For sure. I can safely stop at this point and not put any more effort into it. For a while I thought we could put a bit of trust in Ron at NRD, but he's certainly floated well back into the subjectivist camp during the last year. I guess he has kids to feed.

 

[fieldcar]

Are you accusing him of fraud? Do you doubt Ron's sincerity? He goes into great detail to explain his methodology.

Wait. You're joking. Right? ... Right?

I'm just exercising healthy skepticism. But damn my lying eyes I guess.

 

[RickS]

Isn't Ron's listening room built separate from his house with it's own power meter? Rick S, I usually like your posts because you typically stay above the fray and keep people honest and grounded - why don't you just do the test?

Are you accusing him of fraud? Do you doubt Ron's sincerity? He goes into great detail to explain his methodology.

As somebody who finds many of the people in this forum as obnoxious as the subjectivists I stick around because the value the science you all are bringing to the industry is profound. However, I find it interesting that nobody in this thread actually did Ron's test.

Am not sure about fraud, but you tried his test. Were you unable to complete it?

I can say there are at least 2 authoritative sources who have analyzed the NRD test. He may be sincere, but detail does not mean he is correct. His detail could be an attempt to information overload less discerning viewers (Danny often does this). In the end, it just helps expose his test's shortcomings.

If you look into it a bit, sure you can find those who have already discredited his test more than I would be willing to do. Due to policy, I will not link, but check out Archimago's blog on UberBUSS.

 

[amirm]

I will not link but check out Archimago's blog on UberBUSS.

I like what he has done with one of Ron's slides:

 

[BeeKay]

I like what he has done with one of Ron's slides:

That’s literally all it takes to identify yourself as a full fledged audio snake oil sales person.

 

[Everett T]

I like what he has done with one of Ron's slides:

Can't wait till he starts selling audiophile romex...

 

[MAB]

Are you accusing him of fraud? Do you doubt Ron's sincerity? He goes into great detail to explain his methodology.

Your words. I was thinking incompetent given the provided files, see Archimago's analysis for details. But you might be right, this might be fraudulent lack of sincerity.

 

[beagleman]

Am not sure about fraud, but you tried his test. Were you unable to complete it?

I can say there are at least 2 authoritative sources who have analyzed the NRD test. He may be sincere, but detail does not mean he is correct. His detail could be an attempt to information overload less discerning viewers (Danny often does this). In the end, it just helps expose his test's shortcomings.

If you look into it a bit, sure you can find those who have already discredited his test more than I would be willing to do. Due to policy, I will not link, but check out Archimago's blog on UberBUSS.

There are a few of these guys, Danny, Ron at NRD, and that Jay guy, that all skirt some realistic stuff, mixed with a healthy dose of subjective snake oil.

They all have fairly well polished ways of putting their information and reviews out, but I am sure to a newcomer they all seem very intelligent and talk a bit above what the average guy can understand.

Where most of us differ, we often have degrees in electrical or electronics, or a healthy experience in electronics and DIY and for the most part know what is real or not real or possible.

 

[RickS]

I have mentioned this both publicly and privately. but this UberBS product is worse than snake oil, it is likely a fire or shock risk (maybe both) as it is not designed to known standards for safety. I had backed away from criticizing other recent GR manure (like his latest KEF video). but have to draw the line when safety is involved.

Danny may have some speaker crossover skills, but he lacks essential knowledge of AC power design and application. As more questions are asked, his ignorance becomes more and more apparent. Plenty of folks have called him and Ron out on the UberBUSS audio claims, bit more focus needs to be placed on its electrical safety shortcomings in my opinion:

1. No fuse or circuit breaker
2. MDF enclosure does not meet fire prevention standards
3. No safety certifications and no documentation showing any adherence to known AC power safety standards.

So, there is more than a bit of buyer beware here. If Danny demonstrated any competence with regard to power product safety, these issues would already have been addressed. I suspect this actually may be the major reason that he would not allow Amir to purchase and test an UberBUSS. Yes, he will claim that he is the victim but could have sent one out to a qualified test vendor. Unless he does, the potential risk is more than wasting $1600.

 

[GM3]

(About the New Record Day channel's "I Tried to Debunk Power Cords & Conditioners… and Failed Spectacularly")

It's sad to see all those efforts wasted because those fucking retards can't seem to figure out a decent testing procedure. (Hint; procedure is very simple and known: DBT)

His tests was basically a test designed to fail; an error prone test. It would have been so simple to make say 6 recordings, 3 of which is the uberscam + scam-cables, and 3 with sane, non-scams cables, and see if the AI or people can differentiate them under blind conditions.

But obviously, that's not a test they want to perform because it doesn't fit their desired outcome. Not to mention that relying on an unreliable black box (AI) which we know, by design, is inaccurate, will only result in unreliable results...

Ambient noise levels in a normal room typically range from 30-50 dB. How loud was he playing the music? Even if it's 100+dB at the microphone, anything <30-50dB isn't differentiable from ambient noise... Anyway, there's very little usable details on his test methodology. I was just reading Archimago's article on the topic and he does a good job; covers most stuff, good job!

But at least he got the title of his video correct: "I Tried to Debunk Power Cords & Conditioners… and Failed Spectacularly". Yes, you did fail spectacularly dipshit. You did manage to prove this quote true though: "Irony is wasted on the stupid." --Oscar Wilde

 

[Scrivs]

(About the New Record Day channel's "I Tried to Debunk Power Cords & Conditioners… and Failed Spectacularly")

It's sad to see all those efforts wasted because those fucking retards can't seem to figure out a decent testing procedure. (Hint; procedure is very simple and known: DBT)

His tests was basically a test designed to fail; an error prone test. It would have been so simple to make say 6 recordings, 3 of which is the uberscam + scam-cables, and 3 with sane, non-scams cables, and see if the AI or people can differentiate them under blind conditions.

But obviously, that's not a test they want to perform because it doesn't fit their desired outcome. Not to mention that relying on an unreliable black box (AI) which we know, by design, is inaccurate, will only result in unreliable results...

Ambient noise levels in a normal room typically range from 30-50 dB. How loud was he playing the music? Even if it's 100+dB at the microphone, anything <30-50dB isn't differentiable from ambient noise... Anyway, there's very little usable details on his test methodology. I was just reading Archimago's article on the topic and he does a good job; covers most stuff, good job!

But at least he got the title of his video correct: "I Tried to Debunk Power Cords & Conditioners… and Failed Spectacularly". Yes, you did fail spectacularly dipshit. You did manage to prove this quote true though: "Irony is wasted on the stupid." --Oscar Wilde

The test files themselves *may* have been tweaked so that the files do indeed sound different, see #326, Fieldcar does a great job laying out the data (receipts as the whippersnappers say)
They do shady shit like that to fool the unaware/unwilling to learn/critically think. Super Weasley business practices as per usual. A bit like an online white van scam tactic.

 

[GM3]

The test files themselves *may* have been tweaked so that the files do indeed sound different, see #326, Fieldcar does a great job laying out the data (receipts as the whippersnappers say)
They do shady shit like that to fool the unaware/unwilling to learn/critically think. Super Weasley business practices as per usual. A bit like an online white van scam tactic.

Yeah, which would be fraudulent. But whether or not they were is largely irrelevant since the way they were used can't possibly be said to come to any reliable conclusion, which would make the entire thing even more ridiculous if they did indeed alter the clips in some way...

But indeed it raises the question whether you can even trust the integrity of such individuals to perform any type of tests. At best they're biased and at worst they're liars, scammers and charlatans.

One easy test they should have done from the getgo is to make 2 recordings of the exact same thing (either with or without uberscam), and confirm that their testing methodology, whatever it is, will result in the expected outcome: Being capable to distinguish between difference vs no difference. Having failed to do that, everything that follows is entirely void of any value. Their test is utterly worthless, it's completely unreliable and anyone who puts any kind of faith in their outcome should have their heads checked...

Spoiler: At least, there was some refreshing comments on the YT video, here are some of them

@JBoulter11​

13 days ago
If the LLM did even some of the tests you’ve mentioned here, please share the code it used to do those tests and the graphs and charts that display the results. If you just put the clips in as a prompt, then I’m sorry to tell you this but ChatGPT didn’t do any of that analysis, it just lied to you and said it would. LLMs can’t do those kinds of things on their own. They can write code that could be used to do those things but prompting an LLM is not equivalent to running those tests. :\

@thebigds​

6 days ago
@JBoulter11 seriously, it takes only short research to understand that ChatGPT is not capable of performing any of these analysis. It’s just hallucinating all the results.Also, the fact this guy recorded two audio files and put them to a survey to ask whether there’s a difference, but he didn’t also immediately null check it. Also does not randomize the files at all just feeds the in, the filename says which system it was.Nothing blind about that! I have a hard time taking this guy seriously at all.

@johito82​

3 days ago
@thebigds just ask chat gpt about what is can do in its analysis of a waveform “Short answer: yes — waveforms can give insight, but they’re only one small part of understanding sound quality in an audiophile sense.They’re useful, but incomplete. [...] All the stuff about better imagining micro dynamics and detail are hallucinations

@iloveg25​

11 days ago
Audioholics made a video long ago, with amazing lab equipment, and found absolutely no difference in the signal output, as a result, everything being equal, including the signal that comes into the speakers, nothing will be different. The difference has to be measured in the signal, because the changes are electrical only, and there should lie the proof, nowhere else. No change in signal output, no change in audio, and no, power cables and power conditioners don't make a difference.

@ PowerGuyMark​

12 days ago
With all due respect I don't really care for the way the conversation goal posts have been moved. Danny is well-known for preaching the gospel of ridiculously expensive speaker connection cables. That's a different discussion than giving electronic equipment a good source of power. 14 gauge lamp cord causes zero problems 98% of the time. On long runs 12 gauge. I do like the idea of you bailing your friend out. Show us the data of the in room results. A power conditioner is totally different topic. I don't have any doubt providing good clean power should be done but show us the data.

@jimallen1485​

12 days ago
@ PowerGuyMark I find Danny is generally full of crap and Paul over at PS isn't far behind.

Anyway, lots of decent ones in there, which at least seems to contrast from the from the cult-like GR Scamming channel from what I read here.

Something else they could have done, record:

1. Normal system
2. uberscam + scam cables
3. normal cables + $150-200 power conditioner
4. Normal system
5. uberscam+ scam cables
6. normal cables + $150-200 power conditioner

So 6 clips, see how everyone fares telling differences blindly.