Danny at GR getting bad Talk Back from many of his viewers

[kyuu]

I also just noticed this from the listing:

Four cryogenically treated Pass & Seymour 5362A receptacles

IOW, they tossed four $10 (retail) outlets into a freezer for a bit (or maybe dunked them in liquid nitrogen if they were serious about it). If that's not a huge red flag for snake oil, dunno what is. Wonder what audiophiles would pay for outdoor outlets scavenged from Alaska that have been "naturally" "cryogenically treated" for years on end. Bonus bucks if they're scavenged from a research base in Antarctica.

 

[amirm]

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're talking about here, that's not how it works. Amperage ratings don't change based on voltage. 10A is 10A regardless of if it's 1V or 10000V. You'll get different power, obviously, but that's besides the point for an electrical rating.

I was going to make the same correct point but then looked up the specs for that outlet. it is rated for 10 amps at 240 but also 15 amps at 120. So it is OK.

 

[amirm]

@Amir, I never said it's performance was not measurable. I also don't recall reading it stated anywhere to that effect. The resolution of the Fluke device isn't why he used it. It allowed him to truthfully see the power, HD, EMI, and RFI.

On the latter points, then those measurements should have been posted, don't you think?

On the former, then if I show with measurements that it doesn't do much for noise and distortion for AC mains, would you accept that it can't possibly have the effect you think it has?

 

[Wolf]

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're talking about here, that's not how it works. Amperage ratings don't change based on voltage. 10A is 10A regardless of if it's 1V or 10000V. You'll get different power, obviously, but that's besides the point for an electrical rating.

I don't know the difference between switches and receptacles in how they are rated, but that is how a lot of toggle switches are labeled; 125V@15A, or 250V@10A. Being this, I am not completely off-base.

 

[RickS]

I was going to make the same correct point but then looked up the specs for that outlet. it is rated for 10 amps at 240 but also 15 amps at 120. So it is OK.

Agree, but the rating is 10A at 250V. Not 10A at any voltage.

 

[Ropeburn]

In the youtube comments, Danny Ritchie is claiming that there is some advanced stuff inside, and he refused to show gut shots claiming that this would reveal the intellectual property of the designer. Ludicrous, really - if it is possible to reverse engineer it, then they should file a patent to protect it as anyone can open the box if they have it on hand. If it was truly some esoteric circuitry then all the more reason to protect it by legal means. Whereas if it's a simple passive circuit that's easily DIY-able (as seems more likely), then it's understandable that he don't want to reveal what's inside, instead resorting to a lot of smoke and mirrors to divert attention. I think the ASR community should crowdfund buying a unit for teardown, that would be good entertainment if nothing else.

By law, pictures of gear internals do raise copyright concerns indeed - if you reuse them without permission. The photographer owns the right to the pictures, details depending on jurisdiction at hand.

 

[amirm]

Agree, but the rating is 10A at 250V. Not 10A at any voltage.

That's right. That is why I said the correct point was made. Otherwise one could use 24 volts at 100 amps!!!

 

[Wolf]

On the latter points, then those measurements should have been posted, don't you think?

On the former, then if I show with measurements that it doesn't do much for noise and distortion for AC mains, would you accept that it can't possibly have the effect you think it has?

I don't have those measurements as I did not develop the product. We all know manufacturers don't have to make their R&D work public.

As I said prior, a lot of you would be at odds with my findings on other things, so I don't know that you could convince me otherwise.

 

[unmutual]

I asked ChatGPT to evaluate the Uberbuss with regards to US laws about deceptive advertising. Here's an excerpt (the full chat is way too long to quote here).

Prompt: Is the ad copy for the Uberbuss in violation of aforementioned laws against false/misleading advertising?
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ChatGPT response (excerpt): Under the Federal Trade Commission Act (Section 5), advertising must be “truthful and non-deceptive.” Ads must not mislead “reasonable consumers” by implying benefits, performance improvements, or effects the product cannot reliably deliver.

If an ad makes objective claims about a product’s performance, efficacy, or benefits, the advertiser must have a “reasonable basis” — i.e. adequate substantiation (tests, measurements, studies or other objective evidence) — before making the claim.

Express claims (“This improves clarity,” “you will hear more detail,” “raises sound quality”) and implied claims (through marketing language, testimonials, or imagery) are both subject to the substantiation requirement.

The FTC treats advertisers as strictly liable: even absent intent to deceive, making a claim without a reasonable basis is a violation.


Thus, for a product like UberBuss, if the ad claims it will noticeably improve sound — reduce noise floor, improve clarity, dynamics, resolution, etc. — those are “objective performance claims” that require a reasonable evidentiary basis before being advertised.

In practice, the FTC has acted against audio devices (e.g. a sound-amplifier product) when claims were unsubstantiated. For example, in 2018 the agency settled with makers of a hearing amplifier after finding the ads misleading: the product was advertised as helping users “hear up to 30 times better,” despite lacking adequate evidence.

---

---

 

[MAB]

This BUSS thing does not meet the US fire code, as MDF does not meet the enclosure material flammability standard of UL 1363. Per UL 1363 it also cannot have a detachable power cord, and with 8 outlets it must have over current protection.

If you are using one (or more), good luck. You need it.

View attachment 494955

It doesn’t meet the common sense code either.

 

[Ropeburn]

It's a lot like power cables without any safety certification, only much worse.

 

[amirm]

I don't have those measurements as I did not develop the product. We all know manufacturers don't have to make their R&D work public.

I didn't ask you for the measurements. You post an instrument that supposedly was used to design this product. I am telling you it is not that fancy of an instrument and at any rate, no data was presented using said instrument.

As to the second part, this company brags about the filtering they are doing. It reasons then that if it is really doing that, they would be proud to present such specs. That doesn't give away anything about R&D any more than 0 to 60 times of a car would do that.

 

[amirm]

As I said prior, a lot of you would be at odds with my findings on other things, so I don't know that you could convince me otherwise.

Then don't engage in the discussing using our language, i.e. measurements. Stick to having done non-reliable listening tests and move along.

 

[RickS]

This BUSS thing does not meet the US fire code, as MDF does not meet the enclosure material flammability standard of UL 1363. Per UL 1363 it also cannot have a detachable power cord, and with 8 outlets it must have over current protection.

If you are using one (or more), good luck. You need it.

View attachment 494955

Thanks for sharing! Had noticed that the UL certified power conditioners have captive power cords. My experience has been more with industrial wiring rather than consumer so know there are certification requirements but not all the details. My experience was also more collateral as my main role was controllers rather than the electrical interfaces.

So would appear the UberBUSS only has the IEC connector to a snake oil power cord of choice. Nothing like compromising safety just to chase slight alleged audible improvements!

 

[Wolf]

Then don't engage in the discussing using our language, i.e. measurements. Stick to having done non-reliable listening tests and move along.

When it comes to designing speakers I use a lot of measurements. Just because my testing and experience has revealed one thing or another to me does not make my measurements completely invalid. A few personal experiences do not make me a hack at something I've been very passionate and successful about for a long time.

I like to say I'm the biggest and most prolific speaker designing dork you've never heard of, and apparently you are on that list of people that really don't know my history. It's fine, and I'm small peanuts to the masses I suppose, and my name or nickname is not super well known here on ASR. However, you cannot discount the designs or measurements I've made, and neither can anyone else. I started posting in this forum because I had information to offer to the DIYer or curious purchaser. I still feel I have that stack of criteria, and some members here would be remiss should I not post here any longer. I have some clout and some street cred.

The only reason I commented in this GR thread to begin with was that I thought I had information to offer on the recent video upload subject. I will refrain from this in the future.

Best regards to all of you... carry on.

 

[amirm]

When it comes to designing speakers I use a lot of measurements.

We are not discussing speakers. We are talking something Danny sells which as always, claims to not have measurable effect. As you, Danny swears by measurements for speakers to the point where he doesn't even listen to speakers he modifies! Yet when it comes to a box like this, there is not an instrument in the world that can show that it does anything. You either are taking this position or not. Mentioning that Fluke instrument made me think you were saying instrumentation was used. Now I don't know what you are saying anymore....

 

[Adis]

(...)We all know manufacturers don't have to make their R&D work public.
(...)

No wonder they make a poison and call it Cure.

 

[mhardy6647]

...but bear in mind, we all have our biases and not every ASR member is an experienced electrical engineer either.

Guilty as charged!
Ahem, on topic (ish), and not to create more/busy work for our redoubtable and overtaxed moderator(s), but perhaps the most judicious and circumspect approach to a suspected troll, sock puppet, etc. would be to report a suspect post?

 

[Spkrdctr]

I think that Wolf has read how things are usuallly done around here. I will not beat him up repeatedly as he is probably learning at this time. The more he hangs around here the more he will learn about subjective thinking. I hope he does learn about it as A/B tests are useless. The brain is too finicky. But we all have to learn

 

[JPA]

If you are talking about member "Wolf" I can vouch for him, as I know what he has done on other forums.

Years ago on the PE Tech Talk forum he claimed he could hear the difference between ordinary capacitors and boutique capacitors. So, yes, he believes in snake oil.