Danny at GR getting bad Talk Back from many of his viewers

[JSmith]

a fuse would be a welcome addition

... and maybe no MDF?

So, do you have any teardown pics to share?


JSmith

 

[diddley]

@Amir, I never said it's performance was not measurable. I also don't recall reading it stated anywhere to that effect. The resolution of the Fluke device isn't why he used it. It allowed him to truthfully see the power, HD, EMI, and RFI.

@RickS, that is a 10A at 250VAC IEC socket, and likely 15A at 125VAC. Since it runs standard household 110V, I don't feel this is misleading at all. More often than not, Dave preferred the more solid connection of the 20A IEC, but cord availability was less accessible to most users.

As to the UL, fuses, etc; isn't this another case where your electronic components should have that taken into account already and not needed here? It does isolate the AC wiring as required to protect the end user, but i feel a fuse would be a welcome addition. I have a heavy Tripplite suppression unit between it and the wall, and outlet strips with breakers plugged into it. Not that anyone else uses it how I do.

I got the feeling that you are Dave.

 

[voodooless]

I got the feeling that you are Dave.

 

[Spkrdctr]

OK, it seems to me based upon what the box is supposedly doing, you get a substantial box with some common electrical plugs. Also Inside the box you probably have 12 or 10 gauge wiring that has some caps across the hot going to neutral. That would seem to do all that is claimed. Now $1600 for a box of MDF, 8 wall plugs and s few caps seems like a LOT of money. The simplest easiest thing to do is take the top or bottom off the unit an take a photo of the interior and post it up. This should be a VERY simple and easy thing to do. Then Voodooless or Amir can tell us exactly what is in it and how it works. All this conjecture when a simple opening it up will answer everything. My opinion is just caps inside.

 

[Zgrado1970]

I got the feeling that you are Dave.

Or maybe a Danny sock-puppet account?

 

[unmutual]

In the youtube comments, Danny Ritchie is claiming that there is some advanced stuff inside, and he refused to show gut shots claiming that this would reveal the intellectual property of the designer. Ludicrous, really - if it is possible to reverse engineer it, then they should file a patent to protect it as anyone can open the box if they have it on hand. If it was truly some esoteric circuitry then all the more reason to protect it by legal means. Whereas if it's a simple passive circuit that's easily DIY-able (as seems more likely), then it's understandable that he don't want to reveal what's inside, instead resorting to a lot of smoke and mirrors to divert attention. I think the ASR community should crowdfund buying a unit for teardown, that would be good entertainment if nothing else.

 

[Doodski]

In the youtube comments, Danny Ritchie is claiming that there is some advanced stuff inside, and he refused to show gut shots claiming that this would reveal the intellectual property of the designer. Ludicrous, really - if it is possible to reverse engineer it, then they should file a patent to protect it as anyone can open the box if they have it on hand. If it was truly some esoteric circuitry then all the more reason to protect it by legal means. Whereas if it's a simple passive circuit that's easily DIY-able (as seems more likely), then it's understandable that he don't want to reveal what's inside, instead resorting to a lot of smoke and mirrors to divert attention. I think the ASR community should crowdfund buying a unit for teardown, that would be good entertainment if nothing else.

I love that idea. Simply love it. I would be in-line to toss in a few buckeroos to that effort.

 

[RickS]

@RickS, that is a 10A at 250VAC IEC socket, and likely 15A at 125VAC. Since it runs standard household 110V, I don't feel this is misleading at all. More often than not, Dave preferred the more solid connection of the 20A IEC, but cord availability was less accessible to most users.

If you do the basic power math (P=IV), the rating would be 20A and would still misleading at best. But this is just one issue, a 40A rating for internal parts would likely indicate overengineering and paying more for expensive parts than needed. You may gotten a deal, but GR is charging $1600 for something that sells for about $300 from Tripplite and their unit includes UL certification, a circuit breaker, surge suppression and equipment insurance. The UberBUSS offers none of this as best I can tell.

For that matter, Danny is spewing that surge suppression is a problem. He clearly lacks real understanding of good power supply design.

As to the UL, fuses, etc; isn't this another case where your electronic components should have that taken into account already and not needed here? It does isolate the AC wiring as required to protect the end user, but i feel a fuse would be a welcome addition. I have a heavy Tripplite suppression unit between it and the wall, and outlet strips with breakers plugged into it. Not that anyone else uses it how I do.

If an internal component of the UberBUSS causes a short, the component's fuses will not help that. If an internal short is higher resistance, it may just initially cause overheating and becomes a potential ignition source. Also, if any real heat does get generated, a sealed wood case does not allow heat to escape. Likely the PFC utilizes one or more capacitors. Most of us know too well what happens to overheated caps.

Certifications are not a 100% guarantee but is why household and industrial products are reviewed for conformance to good design practices and tested to avoid safety problems.

 

[RickS]

Or maybe a Danny sock-puppet account?

He is a long standing ASR member and not a GR shill.

NOTE: All members here should stay focused on technical facts and avoid personal accusations or attacks please!

 

[RickS]

I actually came here looking for a discussion of the related New Record Day video and the associated A/B files available for download.

The GR video (naturally) has a link to the NRD effort.

The YT comments on the NRD effort are more negative than the GR ones. Along with his flawed test methods, one commentor basically points out how the NRD testing seems too conveniently timed to the GR product launch. If you want to dive deeper, go ahead but seems the BS flag has already been thrown on the NRD testing.

 

[Jim Taylor]

He is a long standing ASR member and not a GR shill.

I am one of those who looks at @Wolf somewhat askance. If I have wronged him in any way, please forgive me. However, please hear me out before passing judgement.

In the first place, there have been many examples in the last few years of "sleeper" accounts, where the member has a join date that goes back several years (in this case, 2020). Their activity seems to be innocuous, and then BOOM! ... all of a sudden, they engage as a troll. So "member in good standing" doesn't always count for much; sometimes yes and sometimes no.

Secondly, @Wolf has only 719 posts in slightly over 5 years. That's certainly not a crime. However, it is suspicious, in light of what I've described above.

Mentioning that "Dave does this" and"Dave did that" is very odd. Repeatedly talking about "Dave" in the third-person omniscient (so to speak) is highly suspicious.

There exists a certain style of "falsely disarming" comments. These can be things such as, "I was just asking a question, that's all", or, "All I was doing was telling you what happened to me". These are not absolutely 100% signs of a troll, but IME trolls use them more than run-of-the-mill posters.

So the reason I was suspicious of @Wolf was more a case of a number of small indicators rather than some sort of huge, obvious offensive post.

As I said above, I apologize if in any way I have wronged @Wolf. Perhaps, in reading this he will understand why some of us doubted him.

 

[Everett T]

He is a long standing ASR member and not a GR shill.

NOTE: All members here should stay focused on technical facts and avoid personal accusations or attacks please!

Thank you, some of the comments are definitely from left field.

 

[PatentLawyer]

The GR video (naturally) has a link to the NRD effort.

The YT comments on the NRD effort are more negative than the GR ones. Along with his flawed test methods, one commentor basically points out how the NRD testing seems too conveniently timed to the GR product launch. If you want to dive deeper, go ahead but seems the BS flag has already been thrown on the NRD test.

No doubt that it is BS. But an analysis of the WAV files for actual differences would be interesting. Some folks have reported level differences, but I doubt the hi-jinx end there. NRD's reliance on ChatGPT was bizarre.

 

[RickS]

I am one of those who looks at @Wolf somewhat askance. If I have wronged him in any way, please forgive me. However, please hear me out before passing judgement.

In the first place, there have been many examples in the last few years of "sleeper" accounts, where the member has a join date that goes back several years (in this case, 2020). Their activity seems to be innocuous, and then BOOM! ... all of a sudden, they engage as a troll. So "member in good standing" doesn't always count for much; sometimes yes and sometimes no.

Secondly, @Wolf has only 719 posts in slightly over 5 years. That's certainly not a crime. However, it is suspicious, in light of what I've described above.

Mentioning that "Dave does this" and"Dave did that" is very odd. Repeatedly talking about "Dave" in the third-person omniscient (so to speak) is highly suspicious.

There exists a certain style of "falsely disarming" comments. These can be things such as, "I was just asking a question, that's all", or, "All I was doing was telling you what happened to me". These are not absolutely 100% signs of a troll, but IME trolls use them more than run-of-the-mill posters.

So the reason I was suspicious of @Wolf was more a case of a number of small indicators rather than some sort of huge, obvious offensive post.

As I said above, I apologize if in any way I have wronged @Wolf. Perhaps, in reading this he will understand why some of us doubted him.

Fair point Jim! Notably lately we had a string of hijacked older accounts...

Will let @Wolf explain himself but bear in mind, we all have our biases and not every ASR member is an experienced electrical engineer either.

 

[MAB]

Fair point Jim! Notably lately we had a string of hijacked older accounts...

Will let @Wolf explain himself but bear in mind, we all have our biases and not every ASR member is an experienced electrical engineer either.

OK.

You can't learn anything without trying or measuring it yourself, unless you know *everything* about the item in question and can make a valid conclusion with knowledge already acquired. Being dismissive does nobody any favors.

@Wolf explain yourself! ASAP. No more obfuscations or prevarications please.

If you can't measure, send it in or send it to someone who can.
And take clear pictures of the interior. It's not IP violation to do so, and it doesn't even void the warranty (which doesn't apply in this case).

You've made some claims. If I had done the same baseless claims with here with no proof, I would have been torn a new one. So far you have gotten away with nothing more than light sarcasm.

 

[Wolf]

I've been building (1998+) and designing (2006+) speakers for about 25 years, and have over 100 builds beneath me. I go by wolf_teeth on HTguide and DIYaudio, and Wolf here at ASR, formerly on the old Madisound and Meniscus forums, MAC, and at PETT (where I have amassed over 27k posts since 2005, and more dating back to 2002). I mainly post at MAC and DIYaudio currently. I have been published twice in AudioXpress, and achieved several top placements at various events over the years. I also host the annual InDIYana speaker event in the Spring.

I strive for accuracy first and foremost as there is a ton of snake oil in this hobby. Even my most stringent testing in the past has been met statistically at odds with the results, but I do tend to stand by my findings. A lot of people here would be at odds with my claims on some things, but I've even changed the opinions of objective parties due to my demonstrations in the past.

The MagicBUSS I have is behind my entertainment center on the floor and not easily accessible. Even if I wanted to tear it open, access would be difficult, and I dont want to betray my friend Dave. Even if I did open it up down the road, I likely would not report my findings. I'm just telling the story and my experience here with the device.

 

[Wolf]

...and more often than not, I disagree with Danny.

 

[Wolf]

One more thing, apparently there have been 6 revisions to the BUSS line since mine was built back in 2008. The guts of mine would not reflect that of the current GR UberBUSS, nor would it shed light on the current product to aid those of you in your quest against snake oil. The only real way is to group buy a new one and find out.

 

[RickS]

In the youtube comments, Danny Ritchie is claiming that there is some advanced stuff inside, and he refused to show gut shots claiming that this would reveal the intellectual property of the designer. Ludicrous, really - if it is possible to reverse engineer it, then they should file a patent to protect it as anyone can open the box if they have it on hand. If it was truly some esoteric circuitry then all the more reason to protect it by legal means. Whereas if it's a simple passive circuit that's easily DIY-able (as seems more likely), then it's understandable that he don't want to reveal what's inside, instead resorting to a lot of smoke and mirrors to divert attention. I think the ASR community should crowdfund buying a unit for teardown, that would be good entertainment if nothing else.

Truthfully, could think of better stuff to fund for testing. Also, looking over the pics, the unit is fully sealed. Depending on how the cover is secured, may be tough to get open. If they really want to keep it secret, the internals may be drowned in resin.

From what have seen online, most folks are already skeptical (even among normally ardent GR supporters) and they see UberBUSS as a poor investment. Maybe someone will buy and decide to loan one to Amir. Until then, it is on Danny to produce some actual measurements that clearly show how this product compares to major established competitive offerings.

 

[IPunchCholla]

OK, it seems to me based upon what the box is supposedly doing, you get a substantial box with some common electrical plugs. Also Inside the box you probably have 12 or 10 gauge wiring that has some caps across the hot going to neutral. That would seem to do all that is claimed. Now $1600 for a box of MDF, 8 wall plugs and s few caps seems like a LOT of money. The simplest easiest thing to do is take the top or bottom off the unit a take a photo of the interior and post it up. This should be a VERY simple and easy thing to do. Then Voodooless or Amir can tell us exactly what is in it and how it works. All this conjecture when a simple opening it up will answer everything. My opinion is just caps inside.

oh geez. You’re right. The marketing speak could totally be understood as “we made a 40 amp capable 720 mF lowpass filter, but you can only use it on a 10 amp circuit.”

There is honestly something impressive and a bit horrifying about how marketing can make $18 worth (when purchased singly) of capacitors sound like such an impressive feat.