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Danny at GR getting bad Talk Back from many of his viewers

I actually have and use a Pi Audio Magic-BUSS (2x duplexes) in my system that came directly from Dave Elledge (@dBe on the old Mad board and PETT). An acquaintance of mine back in 2009, enquired about it to Dave online in the forums, and Dave sent him one to test out- and it sat for a year on his shelf. Then I found out about it, they both agreed that I take it and try it out.

As instructed by Dave, we talked then on the phone about it, I was to run my refrigerator with it for 2 weeks, and then listen to my system with and without it. It is to be installed in the spot where all runs through it, and it attaches via cord to the single wall outlet. Each duplex is filtered separately, and I was recommended to run sources on one duplex and amplifiers from the other duplex.

So- I ran my fridge with it like suggested. I then took it to Lafayette, IN with me where another friend of mine then resided. He lived right down the street from a power station, and power was pretty noisy/dirty there. I also took my then recently completed MAX 8" 2ways along for the ride. His gear consisted of an HTPC and a Hafler 2200 at the time.

Being I did not focus on proper directivity for these 8" 2ways back then, the MAX had a tendency towards being a bit bright through the mids, and in some rooms they were on the edge of strident, although very dynamic, lively, and capable of higher output levels. They were also a pretty reactive load being what problems I had to solve to get them that far. IE- a less than benign loudspeaker.

We initially set up my MAX speakers and listened for a while, knowing their inherent qualities. Then we swapped in the MagicBUSS to the power line of the Hafler amplifier alone, otherwise same conditions, even used the same source material. After about 5-10 minutes, he looked at me, and I looked at him. The looks on our faces told each other we both thought the same thing, and we were both shocked that it did anything at all, and that it did what it did to boot.

We both felt that the tendency towards stridency of the MAX pair was gone. They were much easier to listen to. It was not subtle at all in that experience. Being forever skeptics, neither of us thought the BUSS would have any effect on the outcome.

When I returned home, where I have a better power grid connection with many fewer problems than in Lafayette, I played with in and out of the system positions for the BUSS. I could tell that the overall noise floor behind the music was lower with it in place than without, and the MAX sounded better here with the BUSS used than without as well. Since I felt it was advantageous, Dave told me I could keep it free of charge. He gladly would have let me return it had I not noticed and liked the difference.

One last thing, that same friend and I have since done an additional capacitance addition to some power strips. Essentially, all it is is an X2 rated capacitor of 0.47uF strung from Hot to Neutral inside a power plug, and plugged into the strip. What this does is filter out noise from the line, and a lot of devices/electronics actually have these installed on the primary side of the transformer for the same purpose. This method works audibly too to a degree, but to less of a degree than the Magic-BUSS did. I still use both options in my system, and he has since picked up the previous model known as the Gizmo (single duplex unit) to use with his system. I also know of 3 more people with them that will not give up their BUSS.

The Pi Audio Group Gizmo, Magic-BUSS, and (current model, and likely 3rd to 4th revision) Uber-BUSS are highly sought after devices. Dave was making them by hand for quite a while, so that is the reason for the simple painted black MDF box in which they typically are packaged. Power cords and cryo blah-blah aside, I do feel the BUSS line of products can improve systems' underlying noise levels to a discernable degree. However, application location may have an affect on how much improvement is possible.

That said, I usually disagree with Danny and his acceptance of snake-oil type products. This is one situation where we agree for the most part.
Does music sound louder when in use? Not in my experience.
Does the noise floor seem lower? Yes.
Are dynamics improved? Not necessarily. It sounds maybe a little "less congested", would be my words.
How much improvement? Depends on your location to the grid, but maybe 5-10% in my location. It's not quite as dramatic as Danny states, but better in Lafayette than here.
Do I know what is in the box? Nope. Dave said it's his life's work, livelihood, and crowning achievement, and convinced me not to open it up.

My 2c....
 
I posted about GR plans for this in February.

The UberBUSS is a rebranding of the same product from the now defunct PI Audio Group. See here…


Wonder if GR is also covering the Lifetime warranties for the PI Audio Group sales?
 
I don't know how, but a snake has slithered in here. It looks like he went through some oil on the floor. Snake+oil=?
 
I actually have and use a Pi Audio Magic-BUSS (2x duplexes) in my system that came directly from Dave Elledge (@dBe on the old Mad board and PETT). An acquaintance of mine back in 2009, enquired about it to Dave online in the forums, and Dave sent him one to test out- and it sat for a year on his shelf. Then I found out about it, they both agreed that I take it and try it out.

As instructed by Dave, we talked then on the phone about it, I was to run my refrigerator with it for 2 weeks, and then listen to my system with and without it. It is to be installed in the spot where all runs through it, and it attaches via cord to the single wall outlet. Each duplex is filtered separately, and I was recommended to run sources on one duplex and amplifiers from the other duplex.

So- I ran my fridge with it like suggested. I then took it to Lafayette, IN with me where another friend of mine then resided. He lived right down the street from a power station, and power was pretty noisy/dirty there. I also took my then recently completed MAX 8" 2ways along for the ride. His gear consisted of an HTPC and a Hafler 2200 at the time.

Being I did not focus on proper directivity for these 8" 2ways back then, the MAX had a tendency towards being a bit bright through the mids, and in some rooms they were on the edge of strident, although very dynamic, lively, and capable of higher output levels. They were also a pretty reactive load being what problems I had to solve to get them that far. IE- a less than benign loudspeaker.

We initially set up my MAX speakers and listened for a while, knowing their inherent qualities. Then we swapped in the MagicBUSS to the power line of the Hafler amplifier alone, otherwise same conditions, even used the same source material. After about 5-10 minutes, he looked at me, and I looked at him. The looks on our faces told each other we both thought the same thing, and we were both shocked that it did anything at all, and that it did what it did to boot.

We both felt that the tendency towards stridency of the MAX pair was gone. They were much easier to listen to. It was not subtle at all in that experience. Being forever skeptics, neither of us thought the BUSS would have any effect on the outcome.

When I returned home, where I have a better power grid connection with many fewer problems than in Lafayette, I played with in and out of the system positions for the BUSS. I could tell that the overall noise floor behind the music was lower with it in place than without, and the MAX sounded better here with the BUSS used than without as well. Since I felt it was advantageous, Dave told me I could keep it free of charge. He gladly would have let me return it had I not noticed and liked the difference.

One last thing, that same friend and I have since done an additional capacitance addition to some power strips. Essentially, all it is is an X2 rated capacitor of 0.47uF strung from Hot to Neutral inside a power plug, and plugged into the strip. What this does is filter out noise from the line, and a lot of devices/electronics actually have these installed on the primary side of the transformer for the same purpose. This method works audibly too to a degree, but to less of a degree than the Magic-BUSS did. I still use both options in my system, and he has since picked up the previous model known as the Gizmo (single duplex unit) to use with his system. I also know of 3 more people with them that will not give up their BUSS.

The Pi Audio Group Gizmo, Magic-BUSS, and (current model, and likely 3rd to 4th revision) Uber-BUSS are highly sought after devices. Dave was making them by hand for quite a while, so that is the reason for the simple painted black MDF box in which they typically are packaged. Power cords and cryo blah-blah aside, I do feel the BUSS line of products can improve systems' underlying noise levels to a discernable degree. However, application location may have an affect on how much improvement is possible.

That said, I usually disagree with Danny and his acceptance of snake-oil type products. This is one situation where we agree for the most part.
Does music sound louder when in use? Not in my experience.
Does the noise floor seem lower? Yes.
Are dynamics improved? Not necessarily. It sounds maybe a little "less congested", would be my words.
How much improvement? Depends on your location to the grid, but maybe 5-10% in my location. It's not quite as dramatic as Danny states, but better in Lafayette than here.
Do I know what is in the box? Nope. Dave said it's his life's work, livelihood, and crowning achievement, and convinced me not to open it up.

My 2c....
Lol
 
Danny shows how this new box does incredible miracles , he does have a huge snake on the table , it may bite , it opens sound stage , lowers noise floor down to an incredible -1000dB :p it gives more dynamic range to top gun maverick of 2000dB for eye mind exploding and even makes instant coffee

He took a shot at Amir in a comment response under that video -- yours truly was on the case... :cool:
_____

@Nightcrawlers_7
1 day ago
Amir will definitely want to check out this great device

5 replies

@dannyrichie9743
1 day ago
If he only knew how.....

Reply

@editorjuno
1 day ago (edited)
@dannyrichie9743 -- Let's see, Amir is an EE with decades of executive-level engineering experience who's literally won awards for technical innovation. You're a guy with a business degree who tinkers with passive speaker crossover circuits -- and yet you can somehow manage to work up the nerve to clearly imply that you're more knowledgeable about how to properly "check out" an electronic device than someone with actual credentials and expertise.

Alrighty, then....
 
And I'll bet the food is tastier than ever. ;)

Lol, perhaps one on every major appliance would multiply the flavor benefits!

Rather than MDF, maybe a cedar case would impart a nicer odor too. :D
 
@beagleman, thanks for the backup. It's much appreciated.

To the jokers, even I got a laugh out of your comments. Thanks for that! All I did was tell the story of how it occurred for my friend and me.

Lastly, do I think the Uber-BUSS is worth $1600? That is debatable.
If I was oblivious, the skeptic in me likely wouldn't care and doubt the results too.
If it was cheaper, say half price, and I was still oblivious, the cheapskate in me likely wouldn't entertain the idea of trying it due to the entrant cost.
The DIYer/realist in me sees the included components. Without knowing the internals, I can't say/see why it does what it does, and would dismiss it again offhand as snake-oil and overpriced.
If it was $250-300, the curiosity may have swayed me to try it, learn for others, and report my findings.
The open-minded approach taken by the former seller and myself to allow a trial period with no risk just to see what I think or don't is information I can learn and share with others. Knowledge is power. I did try it, and have shared this information/story on numerous occasions in various forums and discussions.
He let me try it, keep it for free, and I still have and use it because in my experience it resulted in a favorable change.

You can't learn anything without trying or measuring it yourself, unless you know *everything* about the item in question and can make a valid conclusion with knowledge already acquired. Being dismissive does nobody any favors.
 
The DIYer/realist in me sees the included components. Without knowing the internals, I can't say/see why it does what it does, and would dismiss it again offhand as snake-oil and overpriced.
You don’t have to know what it does or does not do: if you know how the audio electronics work, you know it cannot possibility do what you claim it does.
 
You can't learn anything without trying or measuring it yourself, unless you know *everything* about the item in question and can make a valid conclusion with knowledge already acquired. Being dismissive does nobody any favors.

The principles of electronics have been around for many years. Scientists tested/measured their applications long ago. We use the knowledge they have given us to improve electronics every day, like improved cell phones, improved navigation systems and improved medical devices. The people that do this work don't second-guess prior knowledge. They don't re-try old experiments. They don't re-measure tables to second-guess them.
I figure that their successes speak for themselves. They've taken pictures of the solar system and communicated with Mars rovers. They've developed VLF and ELF transmitters for submarine communication. They've developed MRI technology that has saved many peoples' lives. They've developed both guided weapons and the technology to jam them. They have developed (or are developing) self-driving vehicles.

I haven't tried any of those things myself. I don't know "everything" about them. But if the professionals in those fields were dismissive of some particular item, I'd figure that yes, they were doing me a favor. I'd trust them, like I trust my doctor and my mechanic.

If you can't learn anything without trying it and measuring it yourself .... well, by all means, have at it. As for me, I'll trust the proven science. :)
 
The open-minded approach taken by the former seller and myself to allow a trial period with no risk
Lots of vendors of products that do nothing offer 30 or even 60 days trial.

They do this because they are aware that the product will be tested incorrectly - i.e no controls on the listening comparison and so there's a good chance that the customer will perceive a difference. Doubly so since they have ordered the product in the first place so must have some hope that it works.

The market is awash with plug in devices that claim to improve sound via some method which is never actually demonstrated or shown with measurements. So called grounding boxes for example.

They have a market because nothing appeals more than a product that you just plug in to improve the sound. No need to learn anything, no need to do anything difficult or strenous. Just hand over cash and hey presto, better sound. It's a very appealing thing for the non-technical, the lazy and the wealthy.


To be highly sceptical is the only rational approach.

If you and your friend had tested the product with some controls - double blind - and fully documented that process and got statistically significant results then maybe it would have some credibility. As it is your just telling a story no different from those that say magic crystals on the power cables cleaned up the midrange. It can't be taken seriously.
 
They don't re-try old experiments.
I realize it's a poor, nay, inaccurate analogy :facepalm: but the "life sciences" don't work like that.
It's probably a good thing, too, since the harder we look, the weirder things we find.

Cf., e.g., Nobel laureate Carolyn Bertozzi (first one in my line o'work) who stumbled upon (in the best Pasteur-esque sense of the notion!) glycosylated RNA a few years back.
Whoda thunk it? :eek:

Or retroviruses, not to mention prions, which sort of blew Crick's charmingly straightforward "central dogma" out of the water. Well... forced agonizing reappraisal of it, at any rate. ;)
 
Hmm, I'm off to wash some t-shirts... using expertise. ;)


JSmith
To his credit I haven’t seen a picture of Danny in a filthy T-shirt since that unfortunate photograph.
At least ASR has improved his personal hygiene.
Keith
 
You can't learn anything without trying or measuring it yourself, unless you know *everything* about the item in question and can make a valid conclusion with knowledge already acquired. Being dismissive does nobody any favors.
Please measure it. Or send it to Amir. And tell us what is really inside of it.
 
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