Danny at GR getting bad Talk Back from many of his viewers

[Spkrdctr]

In Speedos. Both of them.

Now I need meds and possibly alcohol too. That image is just stuck in my brain...........it hurts.

 

[Spkrdctr]

We should be less sarcastic. Time smearing is serious business!

Dr. Who will tell you, time smearing is a horrible thing. If he says it, it is a fact!

 

[Spkrdctr]

That's a good point. Soldering is even harder when dealing with these high thermal mass components in a crossover. You need to have the proper soldering iron, tools and techniques to do it right. I have actually had speakers sent to me that came from factor with cold solder joints and such that had become disconnected!

Amir, is right on target. Production quality can be all over the place. That is one reason I am a supporter of Buckeye amps. He has fine tuned his assembly and soldering to near perfection! Honest builders are always worth supporting.

 

[Spkrdctr]

His accent is the best thing about his videos.

I did watch the first ten minutes and he does talk some sense until he gets into criticising the brass binding posts, use of steel screws, and that the inductors are only glued to the board and could 'fly off' - and then I started losing interest.

Flying inductors can be very dangerous. If you take an inductor to the eye, you could be severely maimed. Danny is looking out for your health and well being. Oh, there goes another one, an inductor just flew off my bench and hit the wall. I need safety glasses.......

 

[mhardy6647]

Flying inductors can be very dangerous. If you take an inductor to the eye, you could be severely maimed. Danny is looking out for your health and well being. Oh, there goes another one, an inductor just flew off my bench and hit the wall. I need safety glasses.......

Not to mention swinging chokes.

 

[fpitas]

Not to mention swinging chokes.

View attachment 333443

Those were just a good way to catch something.

 

[mhardy6647]

If this choke's swingin'
Don't bother singin'

 

[bloodshoteyed]

View attachment 333443

sounds like an interesting evolutionary step in BDSM practices...

 

[Killingbeans]

Another important thing when it comes to solder, is getting the right type.

Roofer's and plumber's solder won't be a great choise, if that's what you mean

The fancy gold/silver stuff doesn't do squat in terms of sound. It does have a lower melting point, making it somewhat useful for temperature sensitive applications. Although, passive crossovers don't exactly fall in that category.

Bad/cold solder joints is the only thing that can affect the sound, so high quality industrial electronics solder with high quality flux (the kind that really loves to eat brain cells) is the way to go, if you ask me. If you aren't a cheapskate, you can even get lead-free solder that's easy to work with.

 

[D2013]

Roofer's and plumber's solder won't be a great choise, if that's what you mean

The fancy gold/silver stuff doesn't do squat in terms of sound. It does have a lower melting point, making it somewhat useful for temperature sensitive applications. Although, passive crossovers don't exactly fall in that category.

Bad/cold solder joints is the only thing that can affect the sound, so high quality industrial electronics solder with high quality flux (the kind that really loves to eat brain cells) is the way to go, if you ask me. If you aren't a cheapskate, you can even get lead-free solder that's easy to work with.

not exactly what I meant.

The most common elements you are going to find in solder are Sn (tin), Pb (lead), Ag (silver), Sb (Antimony), & Bi (Bismuth).

If you stick with plain Sn/Pb solder you need to look at the ratio of each. For example if its 70% Sn it will melt around 185C. if it's 95% Pb then the melting point will be over 300C if memory serves.

If you have lead free it will be some combination of Sn, Ag, Sb, & Bi.

42 Sn / 58 Bi will melt around 140C, while 96 Sn / 4 Ag will be around 220C.

Then you have to see what type of wire it is, acid Core, rosin core solid core.

Then you have to think about the gauge of the wire. you can get solder from 30 AWG (0.25mm) to 14 AWG (~1.6mm).

 

[Killingbeans]

I get your point, but acid core and solid core solder doesn't make much sense in electronics applications.

Yes, optimal temperature profiles, that minimizes mechanical stress and maximizes bonding, are critical when you have to guarantee a specific MTBF, but we're talking speaker crossovers here, not aerospace technology.

I'd still argue that having the experience to recognize when you've made a proper joint is infinitely more important than using an optimal type of solder.

 

[D2013]

I get your point, but acid core and solid core solder doesn't make much sense in electronics applications.

yea, but a large portion of the general public doesn't know what the differences are, or what type should be used for what.

 

[Killingbeans]

True. I remember using plumber's solder for my first DIY crossover that I built in my late teens. Combined with my complete lack of skill at the time, it resulted in some really horrific joints

 

[mhardy6647]

acid core solder on electronics.

(with apologies... )

 

[RickS]

While have had some issues with electrical solder quality, the only times have really noticed is SMT work or high mass terminations (like binding posts). In both these cases, flux quality seems to be a major factor although the right heat transfer is too. SMT has been using the right flux. Not sure I have perfected high mass soldering as yet but suspect the answer is larger soldering tips. I have since changed to binding posts with other connection methods.

 

[DanielT]

Ok, I’ll share as I plugged my nose, muted the sound and used closed captioning…

This latest Jamo video appears to be an rehash of the first one. Maybe why he called it Round 2 although is the third post. The second one was misleadingly claimed it was about resolving the earlier issues. In this one, Danny simply leaves out the ugly output mismatch from the earlier one. Looks to have been done to allow him to claim he fixed enough to post the upgrade kit.

For those who have these Jamos how do they know if their tweeters in their Jamos are good enough to invest in Danny's expensive upgrade kit?
That aspect is not addressed in Danny's video.

Edit:
Which of course can be a problem with all old speakers. Or everything old, that use and time itself have reduced its performance.

 

[DanielT]

I don't see it.
For instance, he sells a mod for the RP600M:

Klipsch RP-600M Upgrade Kit (Pair) | GR-Research

gr-research.com

Amir tested it:

GR Research Klipsch RP-600M Upgrade Review (speaker)

This is a review of a Klipsch RP-600M which has been upgraded to a new crossover, binding posts and "No Rez" by GR Research. The kit costs US $244. OK, so there is nothing externally which is different. :) I can't open the unit to show the different bits but here is the back with new binding...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Danny measures them, and aside from his large smoothing they measure bright, and are line-on-line on top of Amir's measurements:
View attachment 324343
I've adjusted Danny's to the same approximate scale as Amir's to allow comparison. The dotted line is a trace of Danny's data overlaid on Amir's.
His measurements, aside from smoothing, scale, etc. look fine.
In the case of these Jamo speakers, he ignored the obvious.
Funny, I have Seas TC25F002, about 20 years old. The ferrofluid dried out as they do in this era of Seas tweeters, and they started sounding and measuring just like the ones Danny showed. But I didn't get distracted and haul out the crossovers and replace the binding posts. I replaced the ferrofluid, it was much cheaper and actually fixed the problem.
View attachment 324346
It's so odd that Danny, with his supposed speaker guru experience, doesn't know about common issues like this.

Is it possible to generalize and say that old speakers with tweeters that have ferrofluid in them should be filled with such fluid?

How much liquid is needed to fix two tweeters? I mostly wonder if it's worth it.

I did a quick google. AlegaFerrofluid - 10 ml, 200 SEK /$19. Is it a good price?

Edit:
I know, worth to one person but not to another, so I guess it's subjective.

 

[Mart68]

Is it possible to generalize and say that old speakers with tweeters that have ferrofluid in them should be filled with such fluid?

How much liquid is needed to fix two tweeters? I mostly wonder if it's worth it.

I did a quick google. AlegaFerrofluid - 10 ml, 200 SEK /$19. Is it a good price?

Edit:
I know, worth to one person but not to another, so I guess it's subjective.

if they sound okay I'd leave them be, you can create more problems than you solve.

There's more than one type of ferrofluid so if you are set on refreshing it I'd try and find out what exactly they used first of all.

 

[Killingbeans]

Not sure I have perfected high mass soldering as yet but suspect the answer is larger soldering tips.

It is. Big honking tip and high temp (preferably a high wattage iron instead). And connect the part you're soldering to a good heat spreader, so you don't melt anything unintended

 

[DanielT]

if they sound okay I'd leave them be, you can create more problems than you solve.

There's more than one type of ferrofluid so if you are set on refreshing it I'd try and find out what exactly they used first of all.

I thought more along the lines of filling up, changing to new oil for the car engine to increase its life span. Perhaps the same principle can be applied to this type of tweeter? Or not ?

But okay, if you don't know what type of ferrofluid is needed, it will be difficult to do that.