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Dan Clark Stealth Review (State of the Art Headphone)
- Thread starter amirm
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That analogy doesn't work.
A better example might be: A headphone's max SPL is like a car's maximum speed. You'll rarely need to travel 185 mph, and it's dangerous to try it (similar to listening to headphones at max SPL).
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Back on topic please. Take this bickering about other headphones to a new thread. Consider yourself lucky if all I did was delete your post. Thread Bans next….
I'm not sure if you understood what I was trying to convey, so let me try one last time.
Not everyone agrees with you that listening tests should follow the measurements because doing so could theoretically bias the measurements. And if the sequence gets switched there will be another group of people complaining that now the measurements were subject to bias.
At the end of the day, my opinion is that it is the measurements that need to have even small potential biases removed. Whereas the listening tests are so exposed to bias already that removing exposure to the measurements isn't going to appreciably change the perception of bias.
It's not all about you, unless you're funding the reviews.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Of course they would, except dynamic headphones usually have much higher efficiency (dB/mW). This means the currents in planars, when they have the same sensitivity (dB/V), will be higher than those of equally sensitive dynamics.
And vice versa, dynamics and planars with the same impedance usually have different sensitivity ratings because the efficiency of a dynamic is higher.
It is much easier to create a high magnetic field in a small air gap and have a lot of windings than it is to create the same magnetic field strength at the distance of the magnets if you aim for larger excursions and linearity.
I don't agree, mine consumes waaaay too much fuel/km during city driving, and that was not a good analogy. In case of headphone is like you have car that might need a 300+BHP engine but cost of fuel is almost non existent so you just need to get that engine.
ifloatoveryou
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I think this is reasonable and understand why Amir takes this approach.
There may be a way to do both. I don't know Amir's process of measuring headphones. He may look closely at the results to determine if a measurement is adaquate or needs to be redone, or he may look minimally/not at all at the graphs. If the measurement process does not require more than a quick glance at the relevant graphs, he could possibly do an A/B listening test with the stealth before analyzing the measurements.
Neither me or Robbo are bothered by the current approach. We are just brainstorming ways the relatively unimportant subjective assessment could be improved, possibly via A/B tests with the stealth.
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And a planar with the same sensitivity and impedance as a dynamic driver could well weigh 1kg because of the huge magnets that have to be used.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Not really... you can design a planar driver with the magnets closer together (thus less swing) and thinner wiring close together on the membrane or use stronger (more expensive) magnets.
That would increase sensitivity but be at the cost of less max excursions in the lows and/or power rating.
The LCD MX4, for instance, is 105 dB/mW (122 dB/V) and 20 ohm. It does way 500 gram though just like the dynamic ZMF Attica.
It just needs 1V so a phone can drive it... needs a fair bit EQ in the upper mids/lower treble adn a few dB in the bass if Harman bass is your thing.
That would increase sensitivity but be at the cost of less max excursions in the lows and/or power rating.
The LCD MX4, for instance, is 105 dB/mW (122 dB/V) and 20 ohm. It does way 500 gram though just like the dynamic ZMF Attica.
It just needs 1V so a phone can drive it... needs a fair bit EQ in the upper mids/lower treble adn a few dB in the bass if Harman bass is your thing.
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Well, yes. But can you do it with the same size membrane and SPL capabilities and very low THD (in the bass) as the stealth? Without needing EQ to boost the lower frequencies (and ending up with higher THD and SPL capabilities again).
Trade-offs...
There's always at leastn1 parameter that has to suffer. I think in this case it was a minor thing to decrease sensitivity just a little. I don't think it's really bad on the Stealth.
What kind of magnets are used here? Do we know?
Edit: Looking back at the measurements, the distortion in the bass is not that low. There are cheaper headphones that measure better in that regard.
Still not sure why the sensitivity on this headphone would be a problem.
Alrighty then
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Yeah, bass distortion is only "good (enough)", not "great". I think my Ether 2 does a bit better at higher SPL with EQed bass. However, at least for my listening, the 94 dB SPL distortion is already pretty much the worst case scenario and then some. I highly doubt I am encountering individual tones at much more than 90 dB SPL. And unlike most other headphones, this one will not require you to EQ the bass up. With most other headphones you will end up closer to the 104 dB SPL distortion in bass post EQ.
I sure would not have minded getting even better bass distortion though!
Sensitivity wise, I think I can drive it from my Shanling M0 in high gain. Not sure if I run into some clipping because it is low on current. Taking the implied max current from 32 Ohm specs for the M0, it should be more than enough.
Edit: I can hear 3% third harmonic at 30 Hz, but 2% is indistinguishable for me compared to 1%. The Stealth has primarily 3rd harmonic in bass.
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tusing
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People on the other forum say the Utopia has more 'slam', and they define 'slam' by the density in air pressure created by bass frequencies.
However, my issue with this definition is, isn't this difference in air pressure literally what we call volume? Can you have a headphone that puts out a lot of sub-bass but doesn't slam? From my understanding, volume quite literally is the amplitude of the patterns in air pressure that we call frequencies of sound.
Depends on how loud you want to listen. My amp is set to 42 mW max normally and that includes a few dB headroom from Replay Gain, so realistically I am hitting 20 mW. 200 mW would be more than enough for me, and I still hit a bit over 85 dBA short term averages at the 20 mW.
OP
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Your criticism assumes I have some magical ears that give you the truth that way. I do not. I am far more reliable looking at measurements to see if they have audible impact as they seem to indicate, or not. Watch this video on reliability of observation as you wish I provide:
I enjoy reading initial impressions, but not because they are reliable. I think there is a case to be made for measurements possibly unfairly influencing impressions. For instance, I thought that might be the case in your Ananda review. You yourself seemed to bring up the possibility:
”Once there, the transformation was dramatic. The headphone tonality was very nice now and sound super open and pleasing. Alas, after a few minutes of listening, I lost interest in wearing these headphones and focused once more on some grunginess. *Mind you, it could just be imagined problem* but the final outcome was unlike other headphones that I listen to that are nice. I usually won't stop until I have to do the review. Didn't happen here.”
Before and after impressions would be interesting, but that’s probably asking too much.
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