Dan Clark Stealth Review (State of the Art Headphone)

[solderdude]

I said that the headphone does not need to be insensitive. Unless, of course, someone can tell me why the headphone has to be insensitive to reach its measured performance.

A reason could be linearity and maximum excursion.
Another reason could be to be better suited in certain circumstances such as OTL tube amps.
Beyer makes the same headphone with various impedances so the same headphone can be used in different circumstances.

 

[Sharur]

Dont know , but lower sensitivity and lower impedance its a consistent trait of the Aeon shaped DCA planars so lets ask @Dan Clark . And you kind of brouight in the power question asking "Is there a performance related reason this headphone can't get loud from an Apple Dongle?". I gave you the reason, it (might) need more current than the dongle can provide.

I'm more than aware that this won't get loud from an apple dongle. I could have phrased that better.

 

[Jimbob54]

I'm more than aware that this won't get loud from an apple dongle. I could have phrased that better.

Yes, saw you amended that post- you meant at the headphone end. With you now.

 

[Sharur]

A reason could be linearity.
Another reason could be to be better suited in certain circumstances such as OTL tube amps.
Beyer makes the same headphone with various impedances so the same headphone can be used in different circumstances.

Fun fact: DT880 32 Ohm measures the best in bass distortion according to innerfidelity. In today's world, what are the realistic circumstances where the higher impedance versions are needed? Although an important learning experience, I will never buy an insensitive headphone again after how much time wasting I did with DT880 600 Ohm. I don't see why anyone frequenting this forum would care about tube amps.

This headphone folds nicely, would be great for walking out and about, but needs a desktop amplifier?

 

[solderdude]

It's just not intended to be driven by phones and dongles and requires an amplifier which people spending this kind of money will surely have.
An Atom, IEMagni or L30 is already enough. I don't see the issue ?
One doesn't complain about the HE6, or Susvara either that they are not intended to be driven from a phone.
Those looking for out and about have plenty to choose from anyway.

 

[Sharur]

One doesn't complain about the HE6, or Susvara either that they are not intended to be driven from a phone.

The fundamental issue is that these headphones are inefficient just for the sake of being inefficient.

 

[Jimbob54]

The fundamental issue is that these headphones are inefficient just for the sake of being inefficient.

Im sure there is a technical/ design reason not sheer bloody mindedness ;-)

 

[Sharur]

Im sure there is a technical/ design reason not sheer bloody mindedness ;-)

I thought this at first, but look at the DT880 600 Ω. It performs worse than the 32 Ω. Also, like I mentioned before, the Audeze LCX has a sensitivity of 103 dB/mW and has huge drivers. People are buying inefficient headphones because they specifically want something that needs more power than an Apple Dongle to justify their DAC and AMP purchases.

 

[Jimbob54]

I thought this at first, but look at the DT880 600 Ω. It performs worse than the 32 Ω. Also, like I mentioned before, the Audeze LCX has a sensitivity of 103 dB/mW and has huge drivers. People are buying inefficient headphones because they specifically want something that needs more power than an Apple Dongle to justify their DAC and AMP purchases.

Seems a strange windmill to charge at , but each to their own.

 

[Sharur]

Seems a strange windmill to charge at , but each to their own.

Think about it like this. Let's equate the headphone's SPL to a car engine's horsepower. Is the goal not to get the most horsepower with the least fuel consumption?

 

[Jimbob54]

Think about it like this. Let's equate the headphone's SPL to a car engine's horsepower. Is the goal not to get the most horsepower with the least fuel consumption?

I would have thought if you are buying a 200+ bhp car fuel consumption is the last consideration you have.

 

[Sharur]

I would have thought if you are buying a 200+ bhp car fuel consumption is the last consideration you have.

Sure, but all else being equal, the car with the higher fuel economy is better

 

[Jimbob54]

Sure, but all else being equal, the car with the higher fuel economy is better

Well, it is to the person for which fuel economy is a key deciding factor. The person looking for the best headphone to pair with their smartphone/ portable rig probably isnt going to consider the HE6. I'm not sure that makes the (original) LCD X a "better" headphone than the HE6 or indeed the Stealth for the entire headphone buying public. If one already has an adequate amp I would have thought efficiency was the very last factor you would consider

 

[solderdude]

The fundamental issue is that these headphones are inefficient just for the sake of being inefficient.

No, because of the design choices, definitely not just to be inefficient.

 

[Dro]

The Stealth is a planar magnetic headphone. Planar magnetic headphones, if done competently, have excellent THD and essentially no bass rolloff. I would consider these two things very important here. They also have a virtually flat phase response. These are the advantages.

Unfortunately, planar magnetic drivers create very weak magnetic fields as current flows through them. There simply is not enough wire to create much. That means they need lots of current in comparison to dynamic drivers and their electrical resistance is also very low.

 

[preload]

I agree with everything you said, I believe this approach of A/B tests with the Stealth before measurements would lead to a better subjective assessment.

For what it's worth, Amir qualifies the part of the ananda review I am criticizing as biased as "purely subjective and may be nonsense" in the video review. I do think Amir's subjective assessments can be improved by the approach you describe but I also wouldn't be bothered if the approach stays the same - I like Amir's reviews.

@ifloatoveryou and @Robbo99999 I believe there's a master complaint thread if you don't like Amir's headphone review methodology.
Having followed ASR for some time now, I would guess that if Amir did his listening tests prior to taking measurements, there's another camp here that would complain - since doing so could theoretically bias the objective data. But taking a step back, and thinking about all of the factors that could introduce bias into Amir's listening tests, I honestly don't think "knowledge of the measurements" is even close to being on the top 10 list. But I'm sure if anyone wanted to provide specific funding for research (say, a $5 million grant or some sort), my guess is that Amir might be open to people dictating the sequence in which he listens and measures.

 

[preload]

I said that the headphone does not need to be insensitive. Unless, of course, someone can tell me why the headphone has to be insensitive to reach its measured performance.

I believe these headphones were designed with low sensitivity so that people who do not understand engineering tradeoffs and design goals won't buy them.

 

[Sharur]

Unfortunately, planar magnetic drivers create very weak magnetic fields as current flows through them. There simply is not enough wire to create much. That means they need lots of current in comparison to dynamic drivers and their electrical resistance is also very low.

A 20 Ω dynamic headphone needs the same current as a 20 Ω planar headphone with the same sensitivity to reach equal loudness.

 

[Jimbob54]

@ifloatoveryou and @Robbo99999 I believe there's a master complaint thread if you don't like Amir's headphone review methodology.
Having followed ASR for some time now, I would guess that if Amir did his listening tests prior to taking measurements, there's another camp here that would complain - since doing so could theoretically bias the objective data. But taking a step back, and thinking about all of the factors that could introduce bias into Amir's listening tests, I honestly don't think "knowledge of the measurements" is even close to being on the top 10 list. But I'm sure if anyone wanted to provide specific funding for research (say, a $5 million grant or some sort), my guess is that Amir might be open to people dictating the sequence in which he listens and measures.

I'm pretty sure he has stated the listening tests are done post measurement. Whether that means he doesn't listen at all before strapping them on the rig, I don't know.

Edit, he does say in regards this headphone he couldn't stop listening before measuring, but I think that's a rarity. Ordinarily the listening he does to validate and refine the eq and overall listening impressions of the HP is definitely done post measurement.

 

[Robbo99999]

@ifloatoveryou and @Robbo99999 I believe there's a master complaint thread if you don't like Amir's headphone review methodology.
Having followed ASR for some time now, I would guess that if Amir did his listening tests prior to taking measurements, there's another camp here that would complain - since doing so could theoretically bias the objective data. But taking a step back, and thinking about all of the factors that could introduce bias into Amir's listening tests, I honestly don't think "knowledge of the measurements" is even close to being on the top 10 list. But I'm sure if anyone wanted to provide specific funding for research (say, a $5 million grant or some sort), my guess is that Amir might be open to people dictating the sequence in which he listens and measures.

Doesn't matter, often times it will be mentioned that some people think it better to do subjective listening test before seeing the measurements, many many review threads this question occurs naturally as an evolution of the discussion on hand. I'm not too fussed either way how Amir does it, but thinking about it, I think it would make his reviews more interesting, in terms of what he learns contradictory to the measurements and in comparison to his A/B'ing of benchmark headphones that he has pointed towards as a future plan. Don't think any $5million research is necessary, Amir can change his methodology a little if he likes and see what kind of results we end up with.....I believe an element of flexibility in approach is important in anything in life, being open to a different approach in order to achieve a better result.