Dan Clark NOIRE X Headphone Review

[monochiro]

I received a pair over the weekend and I'll be returning them this week. I'll explain, I use HD800s with EQ and whilst the NX (certainly straight out of the box) sound good, they can't hold a candle to the Sennheiser. This may not be a fair comparison, but the HD800s can be bought for not much more than the NX, so maybe in reality it is. Without EQ the Sennheiser isn't great for me, but with it, everything falls into place and perhaps what I'd hoped for from a new closed back can wasn't going to be realistic. The resolution, separation, staging is not there and the treble in the NX is a little hot also. I also found the ear pads a little uncomfortable on my lower jaw.

In addition I really don't like the micro phonics, some from the cable, lots (more of a ringing noise) from the metal headband and as I listen quite a lot lying down, any small movement casing contact is very distracting. To a lesser extent, I don't like the case which means storing the cable separately and connecting it each time I use them - it's a small thing, but it would bug me.

Driving them from my DACS Purity amp was easy enough (same volume on the pot as the HD800s) but using the 4.4 connection on my Fiio FA2 from my iphone caused sound to cut out on the top 2 volume settings (this dongle drives the HD800s ok without issues.

The NX is a nice bit of kit and well made, but not a keeper for me on the above basis unfortunately, I'll keep looking for a closed back to complement my Sennheisers, I was interested in the Stealth originally, but the price was prohibitive, so was hopeful with these, but it's not meant to be this time.

I never tried the NX but the HD800 are some of the worst headphones I ever listened to. The extreme coloration in the highs cannot be removed even if you -10dB the 10khz peak, and without this adjustment they are just painful. Channel balance is also terrible. Just get good speakers at that price point if sound quality matters.

 

[Oso Polar]

HD600 was my worst gaming experience with not being able to track lateral movement accurately in a gaming environment where it felt very left blob / central blob / right blob and nothing inbetween which you'd think would be soundstage related, so I'm not sure how to explain that one

Hmm, I'm not sure where do you see the contradiction? Crinacle Zero Blue IMHO have quite a wide soundstage, surprising for an IEM, and sound a lot like like open headphones. And HD600 have very small, intimate sound stage. At least this is how they sound to me.

 

[magicscreen]

Why is there no crosstalk measurement? Is it not important for headphones?

 

[amirm]

Why is there no crosstalk measurement? Is it not important for headphones?

Certainly not on a closed back headphone. Even on open ones I tried to measure the level of crosstalk and could not. The path lengths for reflections is too long to then cut through the opposite cup.

 

[Dan Clark]

Thank you for the reply!

From what I'd seen, these are "Right on the edge" of the "wall of diminishing returns", so in that case, the question I probably should have asked to begin with, and am now is: What would I be getting in these that I would not in the RTs, sound-wise?

I'd be using them for literally everything that requires sound output from a device, and the sensitivity of my autistic ears means I would be cranking things up until they're just audible in both sides, then likely - if they're anything like my current pair - reducing the Operating System volume to below 10/100 farther, if that helps anything.

As for what I'm looking for, I would say "anything that would - for better or worse - allow me to hear every part of an audio work without anything being lost in the mix, or otherwise incapable of being reproduced by the device.

How much the return diminishes is clearly a subjective weighting of what the improvements are worth to someone, as some people find things like soundstage a dealbreaker and others don’t care as much.

NOIRE X delivers a more natural timbre, for starters. By contrast the RT will be more v-shaped, and simply not as smooth in the tops. Also the soundstage is significantly compressed relative to the NX, channel matching isn’t as tight, and distortion is higher. But most importantly AMTS really changes the experience of the higher frequencies.

 

[DEF]

How much the return diminishes is clearly a subjective weighting of what the improvements are worth to someone, as some people find things like soundstage a dealbreaker and others don’t care as much.

NOIRE X delivers a more natural timbre, for starters. By contrast the RT will be more v-shaped, and simply not as smooth in the tops. Also the soundstage is significantly compressed relative to the NX, channel matching isn’t as tight, and distortion is higher. But most importantly AMTS really changes the experience of the higher frequencies.

No disclaimers? Really?
What if somebody starts to sue because it doesn't fulfill criteria?
What if their head wasn't coupling well with it?
What if they didn't hear that good?
And so forth.

 

[Mr Swing King]

No disclaimers? Really?
What if somebody starts to sue because it doesn't fulfill criteria?
What if their head wasn't coupling well with it?
What if they didn't hear that good?
And so forth.

What a strange post.
You are being overly dramatic. Sueing because of headphone related qualms??
Sounds ridiculous to say the least.
Dan answered the question in a thoughtful manner.

 

[DEF]

What a strange post.
You are being overly dramatic. Sueing because of headphone related qualms??
Sounds ridiculous to say the least.
Dan answered the question in a thoughtful manner.

Not dramatic. Realistic.
A customers who buys a product, and doesn't get what they want, might see this as ground for claims.

 

[Mr Swing King]

Hmm…with your recent ramblings with regards to the HD800S plus this strange way of instigating “conversation” with Dan, I think you are going on the ignore list.
Carry on.

 

[Teominious]

How much the return diminishes is clearly a subjective weighting of what the improvements are worth to someone, as some people find things like soundstage a dealbreaker and others don’t care as much.

NOIRE X delivers a more natural timbre, for starters. By contrast the RT will be more v-shaped, and simply not as smooth in the tops. Also the soundstage is significantly compressed relative to the NX, channel matching isn’t as tight, and distortion is higher. But most importantly AMTS really changes the experience of the higher frequencies.

Thank you for the detailed, informative response, as well as making my morning with it (I never expected I'd get a reply from the designer of both units/individual who would know the absolute most about both models, this is to say)!

The NXs seem to be exactly what I've been looking for in a headphone since I got my first "real" pair in the early '10s, both in terms of sound quality, and comfort, so I will be picking up a set as soon as I can.

 

[Somafunk]

Not dramatic. Realistic.
A customers who buys a product, and doesn't get what they want, might see this as ground for claims.

That would be filled under “bollocks”

 

[ahofer]

What if somebody starts to sue because it doesn't fulfill criteria?

Then he could safely ignore them.

 

[Robbo99999]

Hmm, I'm not sure where do you see the contradiction? Crinacle Zero Blue IMHO have quite a wide soundstage, surprising for an IEM, and sound a lot like like open headphones. And HD600 have very small, intimate sound stage. At least this is how they sound to me.

I haven't used IEM's since I purchased & tried them back in 2022 (hate having the wax pushed back into my ears), so I had to go back and find my post where I describe my listening impressions of the Crinacle Blue Zero, following is what I said about soundstage:
"Last thoughts - soundstage. My first listening of the day today was with the IEM's and I wasn't disappointed at all in the perceived soundstage & imaging, it felt natural and panning effects transitioned well around your head. When I was trying the HD560s afterwards though I did notice that the soundstage was better, indeed a bit wider, and I think it felt less flat in terms of it's shape (IEM was maybe like the soundstage layed out on an A4 sheet of paper somewhere in your head, whereas perhaps HD560s felt like it didn't feel like a flat sheet of paper and instead had a bit more backwards & forwards shape to it - quite hard to describe and it was a quick listening comparison."

TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review

Here are some thoughts about the EQ. Notes about the EQ design: The average L/R is used to calculate the score. The resolution is 12 points per octave interpolated from the raw data (provided by @amirm) A Genetic Algorithm is used to optimize the EQ. The EQ Score is designed to MAXIMIZE the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

So for Virtual 7.1 Surround Sound gaming (fps online multiplayer) then the really good experience of that aspect with the IEM made me question an earlier correlation I thought I'd made between good soundstage and gaming prowess. Because those IEM's were my best gaming experience.

I think the DCA Noire X being reviewed here would be good for gaming due to the good frequency response and good channel matching, that's what I would predict.

 

[popthere]

How much the return diminishes is clearly a subjective weighting of what the improvements are worth to someone, as some people find things like soundstage a dealbreaker and others don’t care as much.

NOIRE X delivers a more natural timbre, for starters. By contrast the RT will be more v-shaped, and simply not as smooth in the tops. Also the soundstage is significantly compressed relative to the NX, channel matching isn’t as tight, and distortion is higher. But most importantly AMTS really changes the experience of the higher frequencies.

I'm curious about how you test the soundstage. Is it similar to how Rtings does it? The soundstage of the Stealth feels inside the head, and quite a few people think so. I wonder how the Noire X performs?

 

[Dan Clark]

I'm curious about how you test the soundstage. Is it similar to how Rtings does it? The soundstage of the Stealth feels inside the head, and quite a few people think so. I wonder how the Noire X performs?

We have yet to find a practical and reproducible way to do this quantitatively. What I do instead is I have a few reference tracks where objects are well rendered in space and I reach out to "grab" where the object is. It was a trick Tyll Hertsens taught me back when I started... It's pretty reasonable, but not exact enough to try and create a "calibration" of soundstage, if that makes sense...

I have no idea where you are hearing "quite a few people" saying Stealth is "inside the head," I've never heard anyone say that before, though of course it's possible there are comments I've missed.... Usually it's compared to the best open backs in soundstage. I'm not trying to discount your experience, if you find it that way so be it, but then I have no relative comment to make on NOIRE X soundstage because we're clearly not on the same page about Stealth as a reference... For myself I find NOIRE X just a bit closer for the front of stage and not quite as deep.

 

[popthere]

We have yet to find a practical and reproducible way to do this quantitatively. What I do instead is I have a few reference tracks where objects are well rendered in space and I reach out to "grab" where the object is. It was a trick Tyll Hertsens taught me back when I started... It's pretty reasonable, but not exact enough to try and create a "calibration" of soundstage, if that makes sense...

I have no idea where you are hearing "quite a few people" saying Stealth is "inside the head," I've never heard anyone say that before, though of course it's possible there are comments I've missed.... Usually it's compared to the best open backs in soundstage. I'm not trying to discount your experience, if you find it that way so be it, but then I have no relative comment to make on NOIRE X soundstage because we're clearly not on the same page about Stealth as a reference... For myself I find NOIRE X just a bit closer for the front of stage and not quite as deep.

Thank you for your response! I did unintentionally compare it to open-back headphones, as its soundstage is significantly better than most closed-back designs. Additionally, I’d like to ask if there are any plans to reduce the weight of the headphones in the future?

 

[Dan Clark]

Thank you for your response! I did unintentionally compare it to open-back headphones, as its soundstage is significantly better than most closed-back designs. Additionally, I’d like to ask if there are any plans to reduce the weight of the headphones in the future?

The increase in weight is almost entirely from the self tensioning head strap. Going lighter decreases convenience and for lost people reduces comfort. So no…. No plans.

 

[taotone]

Unfortunately I think HRTF is so important with headphones (less so with IEMS) that unless your head is exactly the same shape as the measurement rig the actual user experience can be different enough (depending on head and ear shape) that precise matching to a target curve isn't generally feasible in the ear of the end user.

Of course that doesn't mean one shouldn't be aware of the curves, just realistic that without individual measurements it's quite possible that anatomical variations can really matter quite a lot and a person who prefers a headphone that doesn't quite match Harman on a specific testing rig isn't necessarily a crazy person, it might well be that the specific headphone fit and seal makes a significant difference on that head.

 

[Dan Clark]

Unfortunately I think HRTF is so important with headphones (less so with IEMS) that unless your head is exactly the same shape as the measurement rig the actual user experience can be different enough (depending on head and ear shape) that precise matching to a target curve isn't generally feasible in the ear of the end user.

Of course that doesn't mean one shouldn't be aware of the curves, just realistic that without individual measurements it's quite possible that anatomical variations can really matter quite a lot and a person who prefers a headphone that doesn't quite match Harman on a specific testing rig isn't necessarily a crazy person, it might well be that the specific headphone fit and seal makes a significant difference on that head.

I have been drafting a little paper comparing 45CA to 5128 using Hartman and a Hartman-like 5128 derived from applying Harman EQ to the diffuse field from B&K, and talking about how this illustrates the challenge of setting high frequency PEQ in the context of human ear variations. Stay tuned!

 

[bt3]

We have yet to find a practical and reproducible way to do this quantitatively. What I do instead is I have a few reference tracks where objects are well rendered in space and I reach out to "grab" where the object is. It was a trick Tyll Hertsens taught me back when I started... It's pretty reasonable, but not exact enough to try and create a "calibration" of soundstage, if that makes sense...

I have no idea where you are hearing "quite a few people" saying Stealth is "inside the head," I've never heard anyone say that before, though of course it's possible there are comments I've missed.... Usually it's compared to the best open backs in soundstage. I'm not trying to discount your experience, if you find it that way so be it, but then I have no relative comment to make on NOIRE X soundstage because we're clearly not on the same page about Stealth as a reference... For myself I find NOIRE X just a bit closer for the front of stage and not quite as deep.

Dan,
By chance have you heard from Tyll or anyone who’s seen Tyll in past few years? I’ve wondered how he’s been since many years back when he hit the road in that conversion vehicle of his. I hope he’s well and living life to the fullest.