I think SINAD isn't quite the right metric... Alas I don't think there's a single magic number, but the most important to me besides raw power is simply the plots of distortion vs frequency vs load. In many instances you'll see amps where the performance for distortion rises at some frequency above 1KHz, and that this increases as the Z of the load decreases. You can see this in ASR's plots of power vs frequency at 300 and 30 ohms, if distortion is WAY worse at 30 ohms, be concerned with a 12 ohm load. Of course if it's worse but still 0.01% it's just fine.
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Dan Clark NOIRE X Headphone Review
- Thread starter amirm
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Not sure an engineering decision should define what’s good from what’s not.
Research on audibility thresholds should define it. That’s also what Harman research is all about, am I wrong?
The risk for us engineers is that sometimes we get obsessed by good-looking numbers..
Hifihedgehog
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Just leaving this here. Remember, the Sennheiser Orpheus HE-1 costs an absolutely-eye-watering-and-totally-not-worth-it $50K. It is quite interesting, even uncanny, how NOIRE X mirrors much of HE-1's response--including even HE-1's characteristic pre-10K valley, this deemphasis-followed-by-reemphasis that I have long felt is what gives HE-1 its almost superhuman-like heightened sense of upper air in the 10K+ region. I have listened to virtually hundreds if not thousands of headphones and earphones in my time. I'll just say that now I officially prefer the NOIRE X regardless of price or product including over Orpheus. Some headphone enthusiasts seem afraid to blaspheme HE-1's "holy" name as if it were beyond reproach and God's gift to humanity, but I strongly disagree with that sentiment. Case in point: NOIRE X's doesn't have the HE-1's biggest weakness or kryptonite: its upper midrange suppression (notice the late rise at 2 KHz) that absolutely does cut vocal bite and makes things sound tonally warm and dull. Plus, being the treble head that I am, I prefer the NOIRE X's extra few decibels of extra treble air and crispness in between 10-15 KHz. Moreover, NOIRE X actually has far deeper and heftier punch and reach in the subbass (see 50 Hz and under). Dare I say it, NOIRE X truly is world-class audio finally in reach of the masses. With NOIRE X now in contention, it would be a refreshing return to reality to see this ridiculous kilobuck trend that kicked off with Sennheiser's HD 800 fall into obscurity and us finally return to the pricing sanity of the HD650-DT 880-K701 era. To wit, I see NOIRE X as a serious challenger to the kilobuck headphone kingdom that conquered the audiophile market over a decade ago, and I hope for us to continue seeing this trend in sensible technological trickle-down.
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This impression is expected and well understood in light of how frequency masking works. Many enthusiasts don't get deep enough in the subject of psycoacostics and incorrectly assume it's a FR deviation that's bad in nature.
Hifihedgehog
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Exactly this! Sennheiser uses a similar technique but down lower in the upper midrange, the 2 KHz range, in both HE-1 and HD800, the region the human ear is most sensitive to, and deemphasizes that to give a sense of more detail everywhere else. The issue there is it messes around terribly, being that it is midrange, with tonality (especially and more so with HD 800 which goes even further than HE-1 in deemphasizing that region) and gives a muted or sucked out quality that I absolutely cannot stand.
Got mine yesterday, my dealer (based in Germany) had exactly one in stock (with xlr connection to the amp). I bought a Topping L50 on sale 4 weeks ago, so this is actually the first (and so far only) use case for the xlr input (even though unbalanced). Roon NUC - SMSL C200 - Topping L50 via TRS cables.
So far, I enjoy the Noire X very much! Super comfortable, most comfortable headphone in my collection. Love the sound, even without Amir‘s EQ.
Maybe not a bargain, but great relation between price and performance. My first DCA, seems to be the beginning of a long lasting relationship
So far, I enjoy the Noire X very much! Super comfortable, most comfortable headphone in my collection. Love the sound, even without Amir‘s EQ.
Maybe not a bargain, but great relation between price and performance. My first DCA, seems to be the beginning of a long lasting relationship
I'm currently testing the Noire X with the Audio VIVO cable (4.4mm) and to be honest... I'm a little disappointed.
The technical measurements that amirm took speak for themselves. Absolutely top! That was also the reason why I really wanted to test these headphones.
But....These highs almost hurt me. The bass just doesn't come when it needs to be. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of bass-heavy headphones, but the Noire just doesn't unfold here.
Otherwise it's very clear, fine and mega detailed. That's absolutely top!
Example 1 Metallica - One. The bass drum starts at around 1:20 minutes. Unfortunately not with the Noire..... And later with the guitar solos the highs are painful in the head.
Example 2 David Bowie - Lazarus. This song captivates with its mystical, dark, calm and slightly depressive mood. But the Noire can hardly achieve that. Even when Bowie sings higher, it just doesn't sound good anymore.
Example 3 Adele - Water under the Bridge. Here too, flat across the board, neutral but very clear and when Adele goes up with her great voice, it gets uncomfortable.....
Played with the Fiio M17, as a direct player and also as a DAC on the laptop. With and without the recommended EQ settings from this forum.
As well as the Topping DX 7 Pro+. Since the Topping is generally very neutral, the listening experience was even more boring.
I would also like to mention that the Noire X is well made. The feel and appearance are great. The headphones are great to wear and the ear pads feel very soft and noble.
But the Noire X doesn't appeal to me in terms of sound.......
I wrote the text in German first and then translated it using Google.Sorry if it sounds a bit stupid.
The technical measurements that amirm took speak for themselves. Absolutely top! That was also the reason why I really wanted to test these headphones.
But....These highs almost hurt me. The bass just doesn't come when it needs to be. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of bass-heavy headphones, but the Noire just doesn't unfold here.
Otherwise it's very clear, fine and mega detailed. That's absolutely top!
Example 1 Metallica - One. The bass drum starts at around 1:20 minutes. Unfortunately not with the Noire..... And later with the guitar solos the highs are painful in the head.
Example 2 David Bowie - Lazarus. This song captivates with its mystical, dark, calm and slightly depressive mood. But the Noire can hardly achieve that. Even when Bowie sings higher, it just doesn't sound good anymore.
Example 3 Adele - Water under the Bridge. Here too, flat across the board, neutral but very clear and when Adele goes up with her great voice, it gets uncomfortable.....
Played with the Fiio M17, as a direct player and also as a DAC on the laptop. With and without the recommended EQ settings from this forum.
As well as the Topping DX 7 Pro+. Since the Topping is generally very neutral, the listening experience was even more boring.
I would also like to mention that the Noire X is well made. The feel and appearance are great. The headphones are great to wear and the ear pads feel very soft and noble.
But the Noire X doesn't appeal to me in terms of sound.......
I wrote the text in German first and then translated it using Google.Sorry if it sounds a bit stupid.
Try Amir's EQ. It's slight but maybe it corrects it for your taste.
I did not hear it the same way as you but I can kind of see where maybe you want more. Amir's EQ seems to give the kick drumps a little more umpth and takes the 4k notch down a bit.
I tried the noted autoeq(?) profile here but it did now sound correct tonally for me.
EDIT: Just to note I'm listening to these on a JDS Labs Element IV.
poimandres
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The Element 4 and NX pair quite nicely. Still burning the NX in at about 24 hours now, really enjoyed the sound out of the box. They are definitely a very elegant headphone as the E4 is an amp, especially with the clear knob. What level do you listen at Doug?
Only issue I had with the NX is quite minimal, purchased from an authorized dealer here in the states and the unit came sealed from DCA with COA and instructions however there was a hair inside the sealed DCA box right below the upper foam. I'm guessing an oversight during packaging.
Only issue I had with the NX is quite minimal, purchased from an authorized dealer here in the states and the unit came sealed from DCA with COA and instructions however there was a hair inside the sealed DCA box right below the upper foam. I'm guessing an oversight during packaging.
It ranges based on music. Some of my music requires me to be at -20db or -15db. That level on other modern music is too loud. So I’d say my range is between -15 to -30. My imprecise measurements are around 65-75db at that volume. I like to test every now and then and if I see 80 I notch it down unless I really want to rock out.
Should note this is all in low gain.
Hifihedgehog
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As others here have mentioned, try using some EQ from Amir. Keep in mind as well that some recordings are of varying quality. Recordings may have boosted highs to survive radio and streaming compression and finally translate well on economical equipment with limited frequency response and high distortion. Or some poorly mixed recordings are just bad recordings period. No degree of handwringing or neutral equalization will fix the source material. Instead, you either have to equalize for that recording or simply turn down the volume to protect your hearing. A classic example of this is this "beaut" from Olivia Newton John. I absolutely hate the trash tier mixing and leveling of the cymbal work that is so overly bright, sheeny, and glassy sounding that it detracts from what is an otherwise incredible classic track. In particular, it is its infamous opening eardrum drilling, pain-inducing cymbal crash in the left side channel that fails terrifically on most reference-level equipment.
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I described in my text that I adopted the EQ settings. I listened through my music database and gave 3 examples. Some recordings are really bad (unfortunately...), but I leave them out for the test listening.
I am always ready to accept help or advice.But if I spend a lot of money, I want to have fun and enjoy it. I don't want to constantly make adjustments to avoid critical situations.
I bought the Arya SM 2 years ago and adopted the EQ settings recommended here. Perfect for me and I simply enjoy it. I'm just annoyed about the incredible drop in price....
The Noire was so interesting to me that I also wanted to own a pair of closed headphones.
I think the level of discussion is very good. It's nice to get information and exchange ideas here in the forum. In addition to the technical measurements of devices, there is always human perception involved.
In my headphone experience an EQ to Harman Curve using Oratory measurements followed by some slight tweaking if necessary after listening to various reference tracks of mine will then serve as adequate for everything I listen to. There's no point in having different EQ's for different music, it's best to use something that works for everything (within reason). So for me if I was using that DCA Noire X then it wouldn't need much tweaking to get to that point because it's already so close to Harman.
Hifihedgehog
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I would respectfully disagree. The tracks you cited all come from pop artists and pop music in general is notorious for overprocessing to survive compression and poor equipment. That is unfortunately the nature of the beast. As you progress into higher resolving equipment, the warts of lesser material become more painfully obvious. So as I had suggested, reduce the volume or custom EQ to your material where required (such as reducing treble in overly bright mixed recordings). You mentioned Hifiman's Ayra and that headphone in particular has significantly higher distortion than the Dan Clark Audio collection. As such, Arya's distortion make it less resolving and it will mask or hide recording issues including and especially treble peaks.
This is unavoidable with poorly recorded material unless you specifically seek out colored or less resolving headphones that mask the deficiencies (e.g. too much treble) of the recordings you are listening to. Or as I suggested to you earlier, just equalize for that problematic material (such as resorting to a simple treble reduction EQ for those several problematic tracks in your library). Or even more simply, merely turn down the volume. May I suggest Neutron's excellent HiFi DAC V1? It lets you add custom EQ regardless of your source device's EQ ability. As Dan Clark Audio themselves plainly lay it out, "With AMTS the upshot is high frequencies are rendered with a refreshingly smooth, accurate, and detailed delivery across all genres. OK, bad recordings are still bad, we’re not magicians! [emphasis added]" Ergo, garbage in, garbage out.
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Be sure you have a good seal, a poor seal will lose bass. If you wear glasses put the arms on top of the pad. If you don’t, with no music playing rub your fingertips together and slowly, if you can hear your fingertips rub you have a poor seal. Contact us at [email protected] for help… If you do have a great seal the easiest way to EQ is with a simple shelf where you set the frequency to set a fixed rolloff. Start with something simple like -2dB with a “high shelf” filter starting around 4KHz and see how that works. You can play with the shelf magnitude and cutoff frequency to taste.
I did check the M17 power, it has 750mW at 16 ohms so it should be OK unless you are cranking it. If you are playing really loud and the sound gets brighter or sharp or crackly you may be clipping. They do have a high-power headphone setting that almost doubles the power so check that that is enabled.
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Is there a good reason why this is outside of the forum? If it is because of order number and personal data, I understand that.
Quick question - how is the noise isolation? I travel a lot and just don’t enjoy the sound quality reduction with ANC. My go to setup is a DAC with IEMs: chord mojo2 and vision ears aura. Isolates plenty for me and sounds great
Occasionally my ears get tired and I would like to change to a good closed back. I ordered the Focal Azurys for my first attempt and sent them back almost immediately due to the drastic sound difference from my Auras.
The noire x should sound great as long as it has a decent amount of isolation. Thoughts?
Occasionally my ears get tired and I would like to change to a good closed back. I ordered the Focal Azurys for my first attempt and sent them back almost immediately due to the drastic sound difference from my Auras.
The noire x should sound great as long as it has a decent amount of isolation. Thoughts?
My impression is that most closed back headphones would be used for at home use in "noisy" environments rather than travel. I think IEM's for travel environments. I suppose ANC is optimal for noise reduction & hence that would be travel too. I feel that these premium headphones would be at home use in noisy environments or for use after travel when you arrive at your destination. But you could use them however you want. That's my feeling on how they would be used. (They might be a bit expensive to use in an unpredictable travel environment as another thought - eg using them on public transport or when out walking in the city or whatever.).
Thanks. I would use the IEMs for anything moving and/or outdoor. These would just be an alternative for 24+ hour travel days to Asia.
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