Dan Clark Expanse Headphone Review

[etc6849]

Yep. I will be using measurements from Oratory1990 and others for EQ (my post said that... ), and only using the MiniDSP for checking the distortion after applying EQ. This seems like a good idea as I want to be sure I'm not over stressing the drivers by applying EQ.

I may try level match drivers too, but just moving the ear cups a little can change the MiniDSP measurements a lot. It seems more likely I'll mess things up attempting this.

I would be a little bit careful though in assuming you'll get the sound if you EQ all your headphones to the Expanse frequency response that you measure - this is particularly true for miniDSP EARS that doesn't have an acoustic impedance that accurately mimic real human ears - if you were to do the same process on GRAS which is more accurate to human anatomy then it's a bit more valid to EQ all your headphones to the Expanse frequency response and if you had a GRAS then you could expect them to sound quite similar, but using miniDSP EARS for the same process you're likely to hear bigger differences in sound between them once all EQ'd to Expanse. miniDSP EARS definitely excellent to be used for channel matching EQ though.

 

[Robbo99999]

Yep. I will be using measurements from Oratory1990 and others for EQ (my post said that... ), and only using the MiniDSP for checking the distortion after applying EQ. This seems like a good idea as I want to be sure I'm not over stressing the drivers by applying EQ.

I may try level match drivers too, but just moving the ear cups a little can change the MiniDSP measurements a lot. It seems more likely I'll mess things up attempting this.

Right, good. I didn't notice much change in the measurements when I moved my headphones around on the miniDSP EARS, I did move them around "to the different poles" when I measured my K702 so that it was in different positions but still allowing the ear to sit comfortably within the earcup (so not silly placement so that the pads are resting on part of the ear or something). Since that initial experiment I just measure all my headphones fairly roughly centrally, then replace & remeasure 10 different times, then take an average - I just don't see much variance and the averaging removes the variance to something sensible. Obviously if you get an extreme measurement that is way off, then you'd probably try to work out why and discount it and then just reseat it and measure again. I think it's perfectly fine for channel balancing work. (The most variance I've seen is above 10kHz, and still it's not crazy variance).
Following is an example of HE400SE measured 10 times each channel, reseated 10 times roughly centrally & measured, to give an idea of variance that I see:

 

[DualTriode]

Not without you having someone take your HRTF they don't

Slow down a bit.

A pair of $200 or $300 headphones and a dose of AI DSP convolution and you have believable Artificial Reality. No need for individual HRTF, $4000 headphones or a $100,000 speaker system.

Checkout the AES Library.

Plus a lot of the current research goes into minimizing the $money that is needed for audio that will impress in automobile sound systems. Definitely not $100,000 or $4000.

Please no firetruck sound tracks in my car.

Thanks DT

 

[Zblarg]

Hi,
I hope digging up this thread is not forbidden by the rules.
I have an opportunity to acquire these headphones as used for a great price.
I'm very interested in buying a high end Dan Clark Audio headphone since I think they have the right point of view by building headphones with science and measurements in mind, and for some time I thought my next headphone would be a DCA... Since I've read this review, actually.
But at the time of maybe buying the Expanse (can't hear it before), I wonder how it sounds compared to its estat counterpart, the Corina, because I have a full estat rig as well as a "classic" rig for planars and dynamic headphones. So I'm thinking that maybe I should wait for an occasion to get the Corina used instead of the Expanse.
Did somebody have the chance to hear both of them?

I saw both of their measurements. Expanse seems to have more bass, Corina is more linear in the bass (maybe a bit too much bass for the Expanse?), but the treble seems slightly more linear with the Expanse... Anyway it doesn't say everything about their sound. Some advice or more info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[etc6849]

Depends on the price of the Expanse (is it the $1950 pair, that's a pretty significant discount) and what electrostatic amp you have. I have both, but I bought one used and the other as open box. Basically, I figured since they were both such great prices, I can always sell one for a little less than I paid and it'd be gone in a day or two as there are very few DCA high-end headphones on the market.

Overall, I'm really pleased with both of them, and the build quality is superb. Makes the other headphones I have that squeak and creak feel cheap to me. My X9000's pads are a little squeaky too compared to the Corina. I also had a Focal Utopia once, and it's frame was squeaky. The Audeze LCD-5 I have absolutely needs EQ to even compete with the Expanse. I'm not sure what Audeze was thinking tbh as it sounds totally different than the LCD-4 did.

The Corina is extremely hard to drive due to the larger stator gap, a BHSE is kind of the minimum amp to run them if you want headroom or loud volume. I run my off a custom transformer box and two AHB2's.

Hi,
I hope digging up this thread is not forbidden by the rules.
I have an opportunity to acquire these headphones as used for a great price.
I'm very interested in buying a high end Dan Clark Audio headphone since I think they have the right point of view by building headphones with science and measurements in mind, and for some time I thought my next headphone would be a DCA... Since I've read this review, actually.
But at the time of maybe buying the Expanse (can't hear it before), I wonder how it sounds compared to its estat counterpart, the Corina, because I have a full estat rig as well as a "classic" rig for planars and dynamic headphones. So I'm thinking that maybe I should wait for an occasion to get the Corina used instead of the Expanse.
Did somebody have the chance to hear both of them?

I saw both of their measurements. Expanse seems to have more bass, Corina is more linear in the bass (maybe a bit too much bass for the Expanse?), but the treble seems slightly more linear with the Expanse... Anyway it doesn't say everything about their sound. Some advice or more info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Zblarg]

Thank you for the detailed answer.
I'm quite confident in my estat rig. I have an iFi IESL which allows me to drive my estats with my speaker amplifiers (a McIntosh MA6600 and Coda CX monoblocks). I also have a KGSSHV Carbon CC from Mjolnir Audio. I use them with tube preamps because I'm quite addicted to tube sound, so well, I think there would be no problem to drive them.
I also have a SR-X9000 but I'm not very fond of it... They are good headphones but not enough bass (plus, it lacks deepness) and high midrange quite shouty for my taste (actually... I prefer the original SR-009 which I also own, and I don't like the 009S at all; I find the bass of the 009 totally stellar and amazing). To me the original 009 sounds quite great even if a bit too bright, and I also love the 007 MK2 but I feel there are some problems in bass.
As for my tastes, I'm fond of the LCD-4 which are my favourite headphones up to date (I also have a pair). Not completely convinced by the Utopia which are a bit too bright for me, in a different way than the 009/X9000, plus the fit is a bit uncomfortable to my head. To me the Utopias are less detailed than 009 and X9000, so when I want a bright headphone I almost always go for these two. A headphone that I love is the first Empyrean (didn't hear the new one), to me the balance is excellent, but they aren't as precise and clean as the electrostatics or the LCD-4. As the way you speak about the LCD-5, it seems that you prefer the 4, like me.

is it the $1950 pair, that's a pretty significant discount

I don't know where you saw them, but I don't think so. They are in a classified on a french hifi forum (I'm from France). It's this kind of price. DCA headphones are very rare here in my country so it's really a chance.

So well, you have both, it's perfect! Can you speak a bit about their differences, in terms of balance, soundstage, detail... bass quality and quantity, treble? Well, any description and comparison would be welcome.

 

[etc6849]

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=expanse is where I search for stuff. Usually they go for $1950-2400 used in the US market.

KGSSHV Carbon CC is something I wish I owned, but can't justify as I already have the BHSE. If I ever see a used one for a great price, I may buy it.

The iESL is interesting. If you search my past posts, there is some discussion on it from several members here including K. Gilmore. The small transformers in it go into saturation and can't perform well for low frequencies. I measured this myself too as I have one. I ended up just building my own box that can do 2kV+ peak to peak no problem, but it was a lot of money. No way would an iESL work adequately for driving the Corina or X9000. I got suckered with marketing BS when I bought it lol.

The Corina's are nice for sure, but they rarely come up for sale used, and new are $4500 USD. Maybe used they'd be $3500 in the US, but I've only seen one used pair ever... I just don't hear a $1300+ difference between the DCA Expanse and Corina if I'm being honest. Both sound outstanding without EQ. If you want extreme amounts of headroom, get the used Expanse.

I also have the original SR-009 and they are very easy to drive which is probably one reason we both like them so much.

The larger electrostatic headphones either need a higher bias voltage or a lot higher voltage amp than what's available as the stator gap is very large compared to your SR-009. The SR-009 is such a great combo with my BHSE (or anything that I have); I will likely never sell it. Putting 2kV+ on the SR-009 would likely kill it and deafen me though lol.

Thank you for the detailed answer.
I'm quite confident in my estat rig. I have an iFi IESL which allows me to drive my estats with my speaker amplifiers (a McIntosh MA6600 and Coda CX monoblocks). I also have a KGSSHV Carbon CC from Mjolnir Audio. I use them with tube preamps because I'm quite addicted to tube sound, so well, I think there would be no problem to drive them.
I also have a SR-X9000 but I'm not very fond of it... They are good headphones but not enough bass (plus, it lacks deepness) and high midrange quite shouty for my taste (actually... I prefer the original SR-009 which I also own, and I don't like the 009S at all; I find the bass of the 009 totally stellar and amazing). To me the original 009 sounds quite great even if a bit too bright, and I also love the 007 MK2 but I feel there are some problems in bass.
As for my tastes, I'm fond of the LCD-4 which are my favourite headphones up to date (I also have a pair). Not completely convinced by the Utopia which are a bit too bright for me, in a different way than the 009/X9000, plus the fit is a bit uncomfortable to my head. To me the Utopias are less detailed than 009 and X9000, so when I want a bright headphone I almost always go for these two. A headphone that I love is the first Empyrean (didn't hear the new one), to me the balance is excellent, but they aren't as precise and clean as the electrostatics or the LCD-4. As the way you speak about the LCD-5, it seems that you prefer the 4, like me.



I don't know where you saw them, but I don't think so. They are in a classified on a french hifi forum (I'm from France). It's this kind of price. DCA headphones are very rare here in my country so it's really a chance.

So well, you have both, it's perfect! Can you speak a bit about their differences, in terms of balance, soundstage, detail... bass quality and quantity, treble? Well, any description and comparison would be welcome.

 

[Zblarg]

Ok so according to you, it seems that the Corina and the Expanse are quite close, with an advantage for the Expanse on the headroom?
Doesn't the Corina have the cleanest sound of both thanks to its estat technology?
I'm about to contact the seller so would very much like to have a clear opinion about it.

Yep, I think the 009 is my second favorite headphone, on par with the LCD4.

Actually regarding to the IESL, I'm very satisfied. Compared to my KGSSHV Carbon I get similar sound, even with the X9000. On my Coda CX monoblocks I even get a deeper/fuller bass response. Maybe the power and warmth of these blocks compensates the problem you speak about. I already heard the BHSE and also heard some very high end amps like the Viva STX, to me the results are similar in terms of quality. The X9000 didn't have very powerful bass on the Viva STX (less than on my amps) but this amp is very, very warm so it sounds great with them.

Putting 2kV+ on the SR-009 would likely kill it and deafen me though lol

Ah ah, I guess it's an allusion to the power of my CX monoblocks. I just let them at a low volume compared to what they are capable of. I don't listen to music very loudly actually.

 

[Nehero]

For all the people who say that for these headphones 14w is not enough, it does not surprise me if, you have a hearing problem.

I had a colleague who listened so loudly with in-ear headphones that you could hear his music in the streetcar - so that the in-ear headphones, and he himself had a hearing problem due to such loud listening.

So if you also have this, I'm not surprised that 14W in the amplifier is not enough .

But instead of loading another W in your amplifier, I suggest you go to an ENT specialist.

14 watts is the power that drives speakers, not headphones .