Dan Clark Expanse Headphone Review

[srkbear]

Can you please name this 14 watt mystery amp please?

My guess is that just like my experience with the Stealth; the Expanse has bass that is not very impactful or satisfying at normal listening levels. It plays loud enough from my RME Adi 2 but the bass wasn’t impactful and powerful enough for my taste.
Maybe that’s part of the problem for you as well

I have an iFi Pro iCAN Signature amp, that outputs 14 watts of balanced power at 16 ohms. It also has three gain stage settings at 0, +9 and +18db, depending on the power demands of any particular headphone, along with four ASP bass enhancement settings that range from a sub bass boost of 6db to a broader emphasis from 20-160hz depending on where your headphone rolls off.

Amir previously reviewed its predecessor, the Pro iCAN, and although his assessment was not glowing, he did clearly state that it had an immense surfeit of power for any application.

I own a set of Utopias, a HifiMan Edition XS and an HE1000se that all pair beautifully with it—for the sensitive Utopias I set the gain at the lowest stage and engage the bass boost on full range. For the planar HifiMans I set the gain at +18 and the bass boost at the lowest setting (sub bass only) and have plenty of headroom.

For the Expanse, as well as a set of Susvaras I tried, I’d have the gain set at +18 and the cans plugged into the balanced 4 pin XLR jack, and the modest listening range started around 2 o’clock—which is an insane amount of power. Even with the bass boost at the lowest setting or off altogether, I had a couple of kick drums clip when I got up to 4 o’clock or so, and although this was fairly loud it wasn’t alarmingly loud by any means.

I don’t like driving my amp at these ranges without any meaningful headroom available. I should be able to have an enjoyable listening volume at 12 o’clock without any distortion or risk of clipping. Solderdude brought up this limitation of the Expanse early on in this thread to little fanfare, and in my personal experience his criticisms were evident in my real world experience.

I personally think non-electrostatic cans should be dinged in a review for being this insensitive, as it limits the range of applications where they can be used. To enjoy these headphones in any setting other than a formidable desktop amp and a balanced connection would be a seriously limiting experience, and I think prospective buyers should be aware.

I welcome anyone on here who has actually tried the Expanse to offer their feedback and tips for how I might be able to mitigate these limitations. For those who haven’t tried them, please do so before criticizing my assessments—I have no insincere motivations informing my feedback here. Thank you!

 

[srkbear]

You are using an amp for which the Susvara and Expanse should be a piece of cake.

14 watts into 16 Ohms is ridiculous power, far beyond what either of these headphones can draw.

The problem is not the amp or the headphones, something doesn't add up here.

Do you have less exotic headphones lying around to give us a common reference?

For example I use my Bose QC35 and PSB M4U8 wireless headphones at around 50% volume on my iPhone 12.

What about you?

Sir, I’m not a neophyte to audiophile gear—I’m fully aware that I have a formidable amp and I’m also very clear about how hard these cans are to drive. A lot of folks seem to be brushing aside this limitation of these headphones as if it were an obscure concept. A sensitivity this low is a flaw for any consumer headphone, no matter how well it complies with Harman or retrieves detail.

I have a set of Utopias, a Sony Z1R, a HifiMan Edition XS, and an HE1000se that all pair beautifully with my amp, with or without bass enhancement. Let me be clear that I am able to listen to the Expanse with my setup—I just have to start at a volume level of 2 o’clock and limit any application of additional bass if I want to avoid any clipping. I have zero headroom at play from the word go.

Listen, a sensitivity of 85-86 is ridiculously low for a consumer headphone. The Susvaras at 83 are absurdly low. Amir acknowledged that these were among the 3 or 4 hardest to drive headphones he has tested to date, and Solderdude sternly criticized these cans for these limitations early on in the thread.

Headphones that require this much power are extremely limited in the applications in which they can be enjoyed. Exactly what is wrong with criticizing them on these grounds? Which is more limiting for a headphone, the need to add a little PEQ or the need to purchase a mammoth amp to play them?

We seem to apply significant qualifiers to a particular headphone’s review based on their tuning and little else. I think a sensitivity this low is a problem left unsolved in any headphone’s design, especially when charging $4,000 for them. We’re constantly talking about how important it is for a headphone to be ready to go right out of the box—these headphones are severely limited out of the box! What is there to argue about?

 

[srkbear]

Eh? The 150 dollar Topping L30II power them, single ended, to absolutely deafening levels when set at high gain.

Have you tried them in this setting? Sincerely? Deafening levels, really? How clean are those levels, at a sensitivity of 86? Come on…

 

[Robbo99999]

I did buy the Expanse, based on the review I read here, similar to pretty much all of my gear I’ve purchased (why on earth would I lie about this?). I stated early on in this thread that I was in the market for a new headphone and intended to try these over the Stealths based on this review—did you not see that post?

And despite my admiration for the sound quality, I’m returning them for the reasons I stated. I’m also not injuring my hearing—I’m a healthcare professional and I know better.

For whatever reason, my 14 watt amp is not capable of driving these to a level that I find enjoyable—not with the ASP bass boost I enjoy for the genres of music I prefer. And @solderdude raised this power demand concern early on in this discussion—did you miss that too?

These are extremely insensitive cans, as Amir noted during his review. There are plenty of other planars at this price range (and less, such as the HE1000se, v2 and Edition XS) that have satisfying tuning right out of the box and are capable of being driven by portable amps—they simply haven’t been reviewed here yet.

I’m not sure why my point is being denigrated to this extent, or why it’s being considered off topic—what is wrong with criticizing a headphone for having a sensitivity of 86, any more than dinging them for requiring PEQ? Given the limited factors measurements can offer in evaluating headphones for a review, shouldn’t qualities such as usability in all applications be relevant?

Or am I just being attacked ad hominem, for not aligning with the groupthink about DCA’s eminence on this site? Do you have the Expanse available for your own assessment? I don’t get the pushback here at all, or the questioning of my sincerity. I’ve certainly been kind to the contributions of you and the others who are dismissing my input here. What is going on?

Well, just give us the details of your headphone amp so we can work out how loud it can drive your Expanse, can you do that?

 

[Robbo99999]

I have an iFi Pro iCAN Signature amp that has 14 watts of power at 16 ohms when balanced, and it has a built in analog bass boost. Either my choice of amplifier or my bass preferences are unsuitable for headphones with sensitivities this low, and apparently I need to choose my headphones accordingly. Your needs may be altogether different, so please take my experience with caution.

H*ly ****** **** really, and it's not loud enough for you, you've got issues! That's nothing wrong with the headphone, get yourself to the doctor ASAP!

 

[Robbo99999]

Sir, I’m not a neophyte to audiophile gear—I’m fully aware that I have a formidable amp and I’m also very clear about how hard these cans are to drive. A lot of folks seem to be brushing aside this limitation of these headphones as if it were an obscure concept. A sensitivity this low is a flaw for any consumer headphone, no matter how well it complies with Harman or retrieves detail.

I have a set of Utopias, a Sony Z1R, a HifiMan Edition XS, and an HE1000se that all pair beautifully with my amp, with or without bass enhancement. Let me be clear that I am able to listen to the Expanse with my setup—I just have to start at a volume level of 2 o’clock and limit any application of additional bass if I want to avoid any clipping. I have zero headroom at play from the word go.

Listen, a sensitivity of 85-86 is ridiculously low for a consumer headphone. The Susvaras at 83 are absurdly low. Amir acknowledged that these were among the 3 or 4 hardest to drive headphones he has tested to date, and Solderdude sternly criticized these cans for these limitations early on in the thread.

Headphones that require this much power are extremely limited in the applications in which they can be enjoyed. Exactly what is wrong with criticizing them on these grounds? Which is more limiting for a headphone, the need to add a little PEQ or the need to purchase a mammoth amp to play them?

We seem to apply significant qualifiers to a particular headphone’s review based on their tuning and little else. I think a sensitivity this low is a problem left unsolved in any headphone’s design, especially when charging $4,000 for them. We’re constantly talking about how important it is for a headphone to be ready to go right out of the box—these headphones are severely limited out of the box! What is there to argue about?

The sensitivity of the Expanse is 665mv for 94dB at 425Hz:

This means it's 98.6dB/V at 1kHz (not the 85-86dB/V which you're claiming) which is not insanely difficult to drive from a voltage perspective, and your 14W amplifier remedies the current side of things, so you've got issues if you can't get the Expanse loud enough.

 

[srkbear]

H*ly ****** **** really, and it's not loud enough for you, you've got issues! That's nothing wrong with the headphone, get yourself to the doctor ASAP!

I see. I’ve had enough of the insults and I think they’re about more than the point I’ve been trying to make, personally. Solderdude raised the same criticisms of these headphones and no one dared call him a fool or medically defective.

I spent $4,000 on these and their insensitivity didn’t meet my needs. I explained why and ended up getting this treatment. I’m don’t deserve it and I’m done. Peace.

 

[Robbo99999]

I see. I’ve had enough of the insults and I think they’re about more than the point I’ve been trying to make, personally. Solderdude raised the same criticisms of these headphones and no one dared call him a fool or medically defective.

I spent $4,000 on these and their insensitivity didn’t meet my needs. I explained why and ended up getting this treatment. I’m don’t deserve it and I’m done. Peace.

It's about numbers, not insults, I think you should really see an audiologist to check your ears. It's about the numbers man. If you think you can't get your Expanse loud enough I'm really worried about you. Loads of people are driving the Expanse off gear that is vastly less powerful and the sensitivity numbers prove that. You need to sort yourself out before you damage yourself further.

 

[majingotan]

I did buy the Expanse, based on the review I read here, similar to pretty much all of my gear I’ve purchased (why on earth would I lie about this?). I stated early on in this thread that I was in the market for a new headphone and intended to try these over the Stealths based on this review—did you not see that post?

And despite my admiration for the sound quality, I’m returning them for the reasons I stated. I’m also not injuring my hearing—I’m a healthcare professional and I know better.

For whatever reason, my 14 watt amp is not capable of driving these to a level that I find enjoyable—not with the ASP bass boost I enjoy for the genres of music I prefer. And @solderdude raised this power demand concern early on in this discussion—did you miss that too?

These are extremely insensitive cans, as Amir noted during his review. There are plenty of other planars at this price range (and less, such as the HE1000se, v2 and Edition XS) that have satisfying tuning right out of the box and are capable of being driven by portable amps—they simply haven’t been reviewed here yet.

I’m not sure why my point is being denigrated to this extent, or why it’s being considered off topic—what is wrong with criticizing a headphone for having a sensitivity of 86, any more than dinging them for requiring PEQ? Given the limited factors measurements can offer in evaluating headphones for a review, shouldn’t qualities such as usability in all applications be relevant?

Or am I just being attacked ad hominem, for not aligning with the groupthink about DCA’s eminence on this site? Do you have the Expanse available for your own assessment? I don’t get the pushback here at all, or the questioning of my sincerity. I’ve certainly been kind to the contributions of you and the others who are dismissing my input here. What is going on?

I run the expanse off Apple Dongle during my demo and they’re completely fine at is at about 100 dB SPL at max volume. My 4W SET amp can push the Expanse to front row rock concert levels without issues

 

[srkbear]

It's about numbers, not insults, I think you should really see an audiologist to check your ears. It's about the numbers man. If you think you can't get your Expanse loud enough I'm really worried about you. Loads of people are driving the Expanse off gear that is vastly less powerful and the sensitivity numbers prove that. You need to sort yourself out before you damage yourself further.

These things cost $4,000 and I’d wager that I’m maybe one of about four or five at most who actually purchased them on here. I teach medicine and do not need medical advice from this forum either. I’m not listening to them at deafening levels; I’m listening to them at critical levels. And while discussing the math you overlooked that they rest at the furthest reaches of headphones that have been measured here in terms of power demands—which was my position to begin with.

My point was that these headphones are extraordinarily difficult to drive. I didn’t say that I couldn’t listen to them with my gear, I said that I felt uncomfortable having to apply this much power to use them and that when I added bass boost to them they clipped occasionally. They are absolutely unusable with any of my portables. For me that is a mitigating factor in praising them, as I prefer to have more headroom—and I would have preferred that that limitation would have qualified the rave that they received.

For those on here who are actually interested in having respectful discussions about the advantages and disadvantages of any particular headphone, I think the constant emphasis on compliance with the Harman target being the defining endpoint on whether a headphone receives a favorable review is far too limiting.

There are many other factors that influence a given headphone’s performance that can be objectively defined when recommending them in a review. Fit and comfort are too subjective. As is appearance. Build quality is an objective assessment, as is tuning, if the headphone is properly positioned on the measuring rig.

But sensitivity is an absolutely objective marker that has a significant impact on the usability of a particular headphone for a range of applications. Despite the cost, these are consumer grade headphones, not stats or studio reference products. They are meant to be enjoyed in a wide range of applications and genres, and by that criterion these particular headphones have a demonstrable flaw that I think warrants emphasis in any review or recommendation. The fact that I can only use them in limited settings makes their cost unjustified for me, as it would for many others.

Instead of assuming that I’m some bass head looking to blow out my eardrums, as opposed to the educated, reasonable and critical listener of music that I am, I only ask that you go back earlier in the thread and read Solderdude’s criticisms, which pertained specifically to my point. You’ve made up a bunch of assumptions about me that are not true, although I’m willing to accept that I may have had a part in causing those assumptions based on how I communicated my point previously.

What I am proposing is that the criteria for which a headphone be recommended on here be broadened beyond tuning preferences to better inform our readership in their purchasing decisions, and nothing more. And I’m fully prepared to accept criticisms of my own point of view, if they are pertinent to my ideas and not to my character. Peace.

 

[srkbear]

I run the expanse off Apple Dongle during my demo and they’re completely fine at is at about 100 dB SPL at max volume. My 4W SET amp can push the Expanse to front row rock concert levels without issues

Prove that please and I’ll consider it. These headphones are not designed for a dongle and I find what you’re alleging very hard to believe. I’m just in the midst of a pile on here, which is one of the very reasons this site drives off participants and gets whatever negative rap it has. If the goal is to send me packing then just say so, and quit pretending that this place is about a respectful exchange of ideas.

 

[solderdude]

While these headphones are insensitive (97dB/V @ 400Hz, 100dB/V @ 100Hz) and inefficient (82dB/mW @ 400Hz), 85dB/mW at 100Hz) but do not require much more than 4W to reach 120dB SPL (which is impressively loud)

To reach 120dB SPL peaks (in the bass) you will need 10V = 4W.
The ifi can provide that in SE. In balanced it can reach (almost) 20V = 16W.
This might even fry the Expanse's driver when clipping severely and reach 126dB SPL in the bass which is very loud in the bass.

18dB gain =8x.
Your D90SE, at max output of 5.1V with the amp set to +18dB should clip the ifi at 20V and +9dB should make it reach the max 20V.

It's those numbers that are at odds with your findings.
It would appear as though you either have the output volume of the DAC set to low, or the amp to 0dB (low) gain or you might have some gain reduced in the digital realm (negative pre-amp or the volume control) limiting the output power substantially.

 

[srkbear]

To reach 120dB SPL peaks (in the bass) you will need 10V = 4W.
The ifi can provide that in SE. In balanced it can reach (almost) 20V = 16W.
This will, most likely, fry the Expanse's driver and reach 126dB SPL in the bass which is very loud in the bass.

18dB gain =8x.
Your D90SE, at max output of 5.1V with the amp set to +18dB should clip the ifi at 20V and +9dB should make it reach the max 20V.

It's those numbers that are at odds with your findings.
It would appear as though you either have the output volume of the DAC set to low, or the amp to 0dB (low) gain or you might have some gain reduced in the digital realm (negative preamp or the volume control) limiting the output power substantially.

Thank you for your feedback. I have the DAC set at 5 volts and the amp set at +18db. And I want to qualify that I never said that I couldn’t get the Expanse’s loud enough, I just said that when I applied bass boost the way I like my music they occasionally clipped. I also have to run them in a volume range that far exceeds my other headphones and I feel as if I lack headroom when I’m at 3 o’clock on my volume pot. I don’t have this problem with my other headphones that aren’t as insensitive and for that reason I’m unhappy with them.

Did I misunderstand your previous posts that I took as criticizing how insensitive these cans are? If I misquoted you I apologize.

 

[solderdude]

These headphones are insensitive, but not nearly as bad as the HE6, Abyss, Susvara or even the DT88/600 etc.
Given the increased impedance in the lows I suspect that boosted bass (ifi bass boost is substantial and is analog) simply 'clips' the drivers.
The higher impedance in the bass suggests there is little damping present. Also the reported 'crackling' when pushing the cups on the head suggests this. You may have been reaching the max excursion for the driver.
For very low bass and the bass boost from ifi bass might be loud and subbass impressive but the driver SPL limit may be reached.

 

[srkbear]

These headphones are insensitive, but not nearly as bad as the HE6, Abyss or even the DT88/600 etc. and about on par with the Susvara.
Given the increased impedance in the lows I suspect that boosted bass (ifi bass boost is substantial and is analog) simply 'clips' the drivers.
The higher impedance in the bass suggests there is little damping present. Also the reported 'crackling' suggests this. You may have been reaching the max excursion for the driver.
For very low bass and the bass boost from ifi bass might be loud and subbass impressive but the driver SPL limit may be reached.

What a nice gift it is for someone on here to try to be helpful. The Susvara was useless for me for similar reasons and I returned it. I’ve tried listening to the Expanse with two of my portables (a Hip DAC v2 and a FiiO Q3) and I could not get adequate volume. The volume was clean, it just was too quiet to be enjoyable, particularly with any noise in my listening environment.

I use the bass boost with my Utopias and with my HE1000se with absolutely no problems—why would it be bottoming out the Expanse but not these if sensitivity wasn’t the issue? I had the same issue with the Susvaras. Despite that should I consider a potential flaw in the unit I received? I’ve never had any headphone bottom out whether SE or balanced with this amp ever, other than with these and the Susvaras, both of which are very insensitive. What am I missing?

 

[Robbo99999]

@srkbear , whatever the situation with your experience with the Expanse, I think you should get your hearing checked out as a precaution. Solderdude has already said you're potentially driving the bass to clipping which is super loud for that headphone, and your amp is hugely capable to drive these headphones. I think you should reconsider how you're approaching headphones & audio, I think as a starting point you need to find out where your hearing is at, and protect it if you can. Initially I was posting out of disbelief re your findings on not being able to drive the Expanse properly, but it's turned into concern. I think you should get yourself checked out as a precaution first before you do anymore headphone listening. Even if it is predominantly in the bass, I think that's too loud.

 

[solderdude]

Despite that should I consider a potential flaw in the unit I received?

I don't think so.

why would it be bottoming out the Expanse but not these if sensitivity wasn’t the issue?

The Utopias are also very lightly damped in the bass (very low resonance frequency) and would expect 'driver clipping' there too but not for Susvara.
The Expanse driver is not a 'stretched' membrane (AFAIK) like other planars so might mechanically 'compress/clip' before other headphones do.

I’ve tried listening to the Expanse with two of my portables (a Hip DAC v2 and a FiiO Q3) and I could not get adequate volume.

Your adequate is surely 'way too loud' for a lot of 'background level music listeners'
I am sure Hip DAC v2 and a FiiO Q3 I would also not consider adequate (for impressive levels) but would be enough for everyday, all day listening levels.

 

[srkbear]

I don't think so.


The Utopias are also very lightly damped in the bass (very low resonance frequency) and would expect 'driver clipping' there too but not for Susvara.
The Expanse driver is not a 'stretched' membrane (AFAIK) like other planars so might mechanically 'compress/clip' before electrical.

OK, I’m going to take the following lessons away from this helpful feedback from all involved in this discussion. I will educate myself further on the nuances of driver construction before making assumptions about other factors influencing the end results I’m experiencing. I will measure the SPL of my listening volumes to ensure that I’m within safe ranges.

And given the absence of alternative explanations, I will avoid headphones this hard to drive—because I’m not prepared to abandon my amp or its analog bass enhancement, and the only two experiences I’ve had reaching the maximum excursion of the driver with the bass engaged is with headphones that are this insensitive. And it wasn’t at exorbitant volumes. It must be something particular about my setup or my listening preferences.

I was hoping that the tuning of the Expanse would obviate the need for the bass boost that I had with the Utopias, but it did not. I enjoy the fullness and subtle punch I get with the bass enhancement engaged, and I’ve yet to find a headphone that offers this with stock tuning—although my HE1000se’s thus far come close. I have a set of HE1000 v2’s on the way to give them a try, and I haven’t entirely abandoned the Stealths.

Thank you to those who helped me navigate this issue without passing judgment. To other folks looking to try the Expanse, please don’t take my experience as definitive by any means whatsoever.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

OK, I’m going to take the following lessons away from this helpful feedback from all involved in this discussion. I will educate myself further on the nuances of driver construction before making assumptions about other factors influencing the end results I’m experiencing. I will measure the SPL of my listening volumes to ensure that I’m within safe ranges.

And given the absence of alternative explanations, I will avoid headphones this hard to drive—because I’m not prepared to abandon my amp or its analog bass enhancement, and the only two experiences I’ve had reaching the maximum excursion of the driver with the bass engaged is with headphones that are this insensitive. And it wasn’t at exorbitant volumes. It must be something particular about my setup or my listening preferences.

I was hoping that the tuning of the Expanse would obviate the need for the bass boost that I had with the Utopias, but it did not. I enjoy the fullness and subtle punch I get with the bass enhancement engaged, and I’ve yet to find a headphone that offers this with stock tuning—although my HE1000se’s thus far come close. I have a set of HE1000 v2’s on the way to give them a try, and I haven’t entirely abandoned the Stealths.

Thank you to those who helped me navigate this issue without passing judgment. To other folks looking to try the Expanse, please don’t take my experience as definitive by any means whatsoever.

May i ask what tracks you listened to that reached the right volume at 2 o clock for you on your amp? I would find it interesting to compare their (subjective) loudness to tracks i usually listen. Maybe 1 example?

 

[srkbear]

May i ask what tracks you listened to that reached the right volume at 2 o clock for you on your amp? I would find it interesting to compare their (subjective) loudness to tracks i usually listen. Maybe 1 example?

Hi thanks. Pretty much all of them, but Radiohead’s “Planet Telex” or the Pixies “Planet of Sound” are two. Big Star’s “In the Street” or “September Gurls”. XTC’s “Poor Skelton Steps Out”. Lorde’s first album. On “Royals” the bass drum clipped with the Expanse when I had the volume at 2-3 o’clock and the bass boost on my amp on at 20hz (the third setting, which adds a low shelf sloped to 80 hz). This wasn’t particularly loud—I wouldn’t feel safe going much louder though.

As a comparison, with my HE1000se’s, I drop the amp gain from +18 to +9, have the bass boost on full (the fourth setting, with a shelf sloped from 160hz) and the comfortable volume range is between 10-11 o’clock and 1 o’clock. No pops or clips whatsoever. With the Utopias, amp gain is at zero, bass is on full, same listening ranges.

When I had the Susvaras, it was absurd—amp set on +18 gain, volume started being reasonably enjoyable around 2 o’clock, couldn’t use the bass at all. Hard clipping was noted over 3 o’clock. All of this was in the amp’s solid state mode, not tubes.