Dan Clark Expanse Headphone Review

[solderdude]

It's the amp I tell ya..

 

[GaryH]

Coming from the guy who endorsed all the Abyss abomination...

Except this time his subjective impressions of the headphone (and those of @Resolve ) are supported by the objective measurements.

 

[solderdude]

So... you think the K9 does lower the 3-5kHz range and overall sound is improved with certain expensive tube amps and all well measuring amps make the Expanse suck balls ?
I am pretty sure when the Expanse were measured with K9 the 3-5kHz area would not be magically lowered in the plots.

For every poor measuring headphone/amp/speaker/DAC you can find a ton of 'reviews' stating how great they are.
For every great measuring headphone/amp/speaker/DAC you can find a ton of 'reviews' stating how 'lifeless and digital' it sounds.

Sure the Expanse hugs Harman. I find the Harman target too bassy and this one probably even more so. I am just not part of the percentage that does prefer Harman target with an emphasis in the 'mud' range.
Personal opinions... they are just that and measurements are indicators of performance.

 

[majingotan]

Except this time his subjective impressions (and those of @Resolve ) are supported by the objective measurements.

This guy needs his ear checked or he truly prefers wonky tuning. Everything I've heard out of the Expanse after hearing it 3 times and the third time I spent literally 1 hour and 1/2 of extensive listening to it is 100% INVERSE of what's on the list.

Expanse is "Expansive sounding" NOT A moniker! Instrument separation is 3D holographic, slighty better depth perception than Stealth, defined precisely in space. Detail is state-of-the-art level, I hear everything with REALISTIC timbre with these. Dynamics are definitely slamming hard and impact is tight and punchy!

Dan Clark Expanse Headphone Review

The soundstage on the HD800 is artificial. It almost sounds like the fake surround sound you get with DSP but wider. Most people don't seem to be bothered by the tuning or how the headphone portrays instruments, but most percussion instruments and even strings sound kinda hollow, like there are...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It's the amp I tell ya..

I was listening on a DAP, not even desktop amp. Expanse is incredibly EASY to drive and I've tested it out of the Apple Dongle as well though the DAP definitely gives more volume steps and SPL.

 

[oscar_dziki]

I think he is missing 'the air'. By air I think he means distortion.

 

[oscar_dziki]

Except this time his subjective impressions of the headphone (and those of @Resolve ) are supported by the objective measurements.

What measurements?

 

[Robbo99999]

Does that differ much from Amir's measurement? Eyeballing it, Resolve's seems more u-shaped from 20-5000Hz and maybe less treble above 5000Hz. It has the same characteristics of Amir's measurement though.

 

[oscar_dziki]

its almost identical, plus @amirm used a different Harman target.

 

[solderdude]

Different test fixtures = different measurements.

Different head/ears/brains/preference = different perception

 

[Grobbelboy]

Hm yes, the bluntedness, congestion, low dynamics and impact are a bit of a shame. But luckily all of those negatives are completely compensated by an overabundance of schlobi!

I’m sorry? What’s “Schlobi” you ask?

Heh. Seems like you still have a LOT to learn in the world of audio and headphones. Not everything is visible in graphs you know.

 

[oscar_dziki]

The guy was literally taking money from Dan Clark's competition. I think we shouldn't waste our breath on his opinions.

 

[MayaTlab]

Does that differ much from Amir's measurement?

A bit yes (normalised across an octave centred at 500Hz) :

But I wouldn't nitpick about it given the degree of the difference, these headphones' design, and the fixtures used.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I had the Stealth and the Expanse over the weekend. I was disappointed by the Expanse, but I learned to appreciate the Stealth once again. I don't want to say much about the Expanse. But the graph of Resolve "fits" well with my experience (bass too much, treble not as "right" as i expected).

 

[DJBonoBobo]

@GaryH I don´t know where you got the graph from. Is there one for the Stealth, too?

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

What a coincidence, dms video came out just after video from abyss talking about 'overdamping' headphones...
What a funny story

 

[solderdude]

@GaryH I don´t know where you got the graph from. Is there one for the Stealth, too?

Not Gary but here you can find the review

 

[SimoF]

Damn he described the whole dca lineup in one frame. Savage

 

[Rthomas]

Damn he described the whole dca lineup in one frame. Savage

This was a real hit piece! I think it's a bit out of line as he has worked for (still works for? ) Abyss.

I'd agree somewhat with lack of dynamics and impact but nothing else.

I'm sure Dan can think of many thinks to say about Abyss headphones and superconductor cables but I think the best way forward would be to just ignore this.

 

[jae]

This guy needs his ear checked or he truly prefers wonky tuning. Everything I've heard out of the Expanse after hearing it 3 times and the third time I spent literally 1 hour and 1/2 of extensive listening to it is 100% INVERSE of what's on the list.

Expanse is "Expansive sounding" NOT A moniker! Instrument separation is 3D holographic, slighty better depth perception than Stealth, defined precisely in space. Detail is state-of-the-art level, I hear everything with REALISTIC timbre with these. Dynamics are definitely slamming hard and impact is tight and punchy!

Dan Clark Expanse Headphone Review

The soundstage on the HD800 is artificial. It almost sounds like the fake surround sound you get with DSP but wider. Most people don't seem to be bothered by the tuning or how the headphone portrays instruments, but most percussion instruments and even strings sound kinda hollow, like there are...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I was listening on a DAP, not even desktop amp. Expanse is incredibly EASY to drive and I've tested it out of the Apple Dongle as well though the DAP definitely gives more volume steps and SPL.

View attachment 237542

At what point does a headphone become "hard to drive" then? 86 db/mW is not enough? It is obviously harder to drive compared to the majority of other headphones, and it is in the top percentiles of harder to drive headphones. It's only by the virtue that most people will probably not be EQing positively in the low end that it will not need more juice than is typical for a "hard to drive" headphone that has low-end rolloff. Apple dongle is neutered in many parts of the world to 1 Vrms. When you factor in the additional loudness normalisation on things like streaming services, replaygain, perhaps a minor negative preamp in Windows to get around clipping issues for those that use a PC, a lower powered dongle may not be adequate to listen to very dynamic music at 86-96 dB. We're only lucky that in the last few years there's an abundance of performant electronics that are made to handle these loads well.

 

[solderdude]

At what point does a headphone become "hard to drive" then? 86 db/mW is not enough?

'Hard to drive' is a term coined by subjectivists that found sound quality to be lacking driven from most sources.

A high impedance headphone can not be driven to very loud levels with a limited max. voltage swing.
However, technically they are a very 'easy' load for any amplifier so not 'hard to drive' but requires more than 1V voltage swing to reach loud levels.

A low impedance headphone can not be driven to very loud levels when the amplifier is current limited.
Technically a low voltage swing amplifier can drive these headphones to loud levels, providing current limits are not reached so are not difficult to drive.
That said, it is technically more challenging to drive low impedance loads with very low distortion but still very possible with a good design.

When are headphones hard to drive then ?
Well I would say any headphone that requires more than 0.2W to reach 120dB SPL can be considered to be more demanding of any headphone output stage and require an amp that needs to provide enough power in the load impedance.
Even headphones that require well over 1W are not 'hard to drive'. They can easily be driven by an amplifier able to provide that power in its impedance.

Of course, even with a phone one might be perfectly able to reach comfortable to even mildly loud levels. They just can't reach loud and impressively loud levels on such a low output power source in the required impedance.

Not 'hard to drive' in this case but simply 'not possible to play loud'.
The DCA Expanse and Stealth certainly fall into the category (81dB/mW @ 1kHz).