Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions.
Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Quasi-anechoic measurements are a way to capture the 'real' frequency response of a speaker without the influence of a room. They are called 'quasi-anechoic' because they have the potential to get you really close to the results one might achieve with a non-reflective environment like an...
Yep. It's very bright on-axis, but smoother off-axis.
From the user manual:
The speakers are designed to meet our wide dispersion principle, so they should NOT be angled towards the listening position, but be positioned parallel with the rear wall, see Figure 2. By parallel positioning, the distortion in the main listening area will be lowered and the room integration will be improved. the wide dispersion principle will ensure that sound is spread evenly within a large area in the listening room.
...
ZENSOR 1 AX is designed to be positioned close to the wall. The speaker can be positioned on a stand/shelf or hung on a wall using the integrated wall bracket.
...
The ZENSOR 1 AX should ideally be positioned, so that the height of the tweeter is approximately at ear height when seated in your favourite listening position.
Looking at the predicted in-room response, it's quite smooth, and it should be possible to tame the tweeter with EQ (since the HF off-axis behavior is quite smooth).
I'll do a spin of the passive version tomorrow (I have another pair. It's not just the passive speaker that came with the powered one), just to see if the tweeter response is different.
Thank you very much for these detailed graphs!
I have been gathering knowledge in the audio world for some weeks now, so sorry in advance if I say something stupid.
When looking at the negative horizontal graph, is it safe to say that -40° (so practically 45° inward, like figure 1 above) gives the best neutral sound? Your graph shows a 1-2dB dip in the 1000-2000 Hz range and a drop-off after approximately 12500 Hz for the -40° curve. Otherwise, that curve is pretty neutral except for smaller frequency range deviations.
If what I say is correct, could you provide an isolated graph with that specific curve, or a curve of -40 and -50 that I can average myself to a curve that would approximate a -45° setup? That way, I can make an equalizer. Or better yet, is it possible to provide me with the data itself so I don't have to plot it and click on hundred different fix-points to make an approximation of the curve via a graphreader tool to extract values from graph images
When looking at the negative horizontal graph, is it safe to say that -40° (so practically 45° inward, like figure 1 above) gives the best neutral sound? Your graph shows a 1-2dB dip in the 1000-2000 Hz range and a drop-off after approximately 12500 Hz for the -40° curve. Otherwise, that curve is pretty neutral except for smaller frequency range deviations.
30-40 degrees should give the most neutral sound. Dali speakers are not designed to be toed in, so it makes sense. 50 degrees is too far (tweeter level drops above ~7 kHz).
30-40 degrees should give the most neutral sound. Dali speakers are not designed to be toed in, so it makes sense. 50 degrees is too far (tweeter level drops above ~7 kHz).
Here is the equalizer I made for the -40° horizontal position. Note that I equalized starting from ~80 dB, because I use a subwoofer with a crossover set at 80 dB, and also to prevent the speakers from producing distorted low frequencies.
Frequency range with the equalizer is now (+/-3 dB) 64 - >20.000 dB instead of 77 - >20.000 dB.
Paramatric Filters:
Code:
Preamp: -8.5 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 80 Hz Gain 3.2 dB Q 1.100
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 95 Hz Gain -0.6 dB Q 4.000
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 120 Hz Gain -1.9 dB Q 2.100
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 180 Hz Gain -1.7 dB Q 1.200
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 330 Hz Gain -0.8 dB Q 2.400
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 360 Hz Gain 1.2 dB Q 3.500
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 550 Hz Gain 1.1 dB Q 3.400
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 810 Hz Gain 1.5 dB Q 5.000
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 1000 Hz Gain -1.7 dB Q 3.800
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 1600 Hz Gain 1.0 dB Q 5.000
Filter 11: ON PK Fc 2800 Hz Gain -1.4 dB Q 4.100
Filter 12: ON PK Fc 3000 Hz Gain 0.9 dB Q 1.900
Filter 13: ON PK Fc 3400 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 5.000
Filter 14: ON PK Fc 4300 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 5.000
Filter 15: ON PK Fc 5500 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 4.600
Filter 16: ON PK Fc 5700 Hz Gain -1.1 dB Q 2.700
Filter 17: ON PK Fc 5700 Hz Gain 1.5 dB Q 3.100
Filter 18: ON PK Fc 7000 Hz Gain -1.1 dB Q 4.800
Filter 19: ON PK Fc 9100 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 3.000
Filter 20: ON PK Fc 15000 Hz Gain 3.4 dB Q 2.200
Filter 21: ON PK Fc 19000 Hz Gain 8.2 dB Q 1.100
The .txt files of the Parametric and Graphic Filters, plus a screenshot of the frequency response curves (measured + equalized) can be found below.
Quasi-anechoic measurements are a way to capture the 'real' frequency response of a speaker without the influence of a room. They are called 'quasi-anechoic' because they have the potential to get you really close to the results one might achieve with a non-reflective environment like an...
Not really in agreement that tuning a speaker bright with the intent to listen off axis is the best idea. I'm not really sure that dome beams enough to warrant a HF boost, and if you look at some speakers that do the HF boost, wharfdale aura, polk r series stuff, they are not adding nearly as large of a HF boost to achieve the desired result. Those speakers also exhibit considerably more narrow HF directivity. Your LP might be ok, but everywhere else is going to be really bright with this speaker, that's a pretty significant rise towards the top that would certainly make me just immediately turn off the music.
Not really in agreement that tuning a speaker bright with the intent to listen off axis is the best idea. I'm not really sure that dome beams enough to warrant a HF boost, and if you look at some speakers that do the HF boost, wharfdale aura, polk r series stuff, they are not adding nearly as large of a HF boost to achieve the desired result. Those speakers also exhibit considerably more narrow HF directivity. Your LP might be ok, but everywhere else is going to be really bright with this speaker, that's a pretty significant rise towards the top that would certainly make me just immediately turn off the music.
Thanks for your knowledge. I can't test my equalizer, because it's too early to play hard music at the moment. I am going to test it out extensively (by ear though ) in a few hours and may edit my previous post if needed, because I am concerned about the HF as well since I equalized it pretty hard.
Thanks. but since it was my first spin measurement, the presentation isn't as good as for the passive version. I've also made a few improvements to my setup since then.
Here are measurements of the passive Dali Zensor 1 bookshelf speaker. It retailed for ~US $189 / pair (1996 SEK) in Sweden 12 years ago. Note: This is not the passive speaker that came with my powered Zensor 1 AX, measured here...
www.audiosciencereview.com
The reason why I measured both was to see if they've made an attempt to EQ the speakers, since they are powered.
Not really in agreement that tuning a speaker bright with the intent to listen off axis is the best idea. I'm not really sure that dome beams enough to warrant a HF boost, and if you look at some speakers that do the HF boost, wharfdale aura, polk r series stuff, they are not adding nearly as large of a HF boost to achieve the desired result. Those speakers also exhibit considerably more narrow HF directivity. Your LP might be ok, but everywhere else is going to be really bright with this speaker, that's a pretty significant rise towards the top that would certainly make me just immediately turn off the music.
I can do that but it won't be seen as the front page is ordered by date. Since this is a very old thread, it will be pages and pages before anyone sees it.
Before I can test myself, just by looking at the data, a -30° horizontal position looks like the best scenario. Only beyond 15000 Hz, the frequency response is going down really significantly. The area of approx. 8000 to 12500 Hz is too high, ranging from +1 to +2.7 dB at most. It doesn't even need to be equalized by the looks of it, but I equalized it regardless from 80 Hz to 15000 Hz. I think this will produce the best results, but I can test it in about 2 hours. Perhaps you guys can check it out already:
Code:
Preamp: -2.9 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 80 Hz Gain 2.8 dB Q 0.700
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 80 Hz Gain 1.5 dB Q 4.100
Filter 3: ON LSC Fc 105 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 0.600
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 140 Hz Gain -2.4 dB Q 1.700
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 230 Hz Gain -0.9 dB Q 1.400
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 390 Hz Gain 0.7 dB Q 2.800
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 560 Hz Gain 1.3 dB Q 4.700
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 800 Hz Gain 1.6 dB Q 5.000
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 970 Hz Gain -2.1 dB Q 4.200
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 2600 Hz Gain -0.8 dB Q 3.900
Filter 11: ON PK Fc 3400 Hz Gain -0.9 dB Q 5.000
Filter 12: ON PK Fc 4400 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 4.200
Filter 13: ON PK Fc 5900 Hz Gain 1.3 dB Q 4.900
Filter 14: ON PK Fc 6300 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 5.000
Filter 15: ON PK Fc 9000 Hz Gain -2.2 dB Q 3.100
Filter 16: ON PK Fc 12000 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 2.000
Filter 17: ON PK Fc 15000 Hz Gain 2.1 dB Q 1.000
Frequency range (+/- 3dB) changed from 80 - >20.000 Hz to 67 - >20.000 Hz).
Attachments
Dali Zensor 1 AX Ageve -30 hor Filters.txt
843 bytes
· Views: 60
Dali Zensor 1 AX horizontal frequency response -30 horizontal equalizer 80-15000hz.png
Are you allowed to double post on this forum? I couldn't find the rules, my apologies if it is not allowed.
I calculated the correct distance between the speakers and your TV for the TV sizes 55", 65" and 77" when having the Dali speakers at a 30° listening angle. If you have do not have enough room, i.e. if you need to place the speakers very close to your TV (10 cm), then a 30° listening angle to your Dali speakers is not preferable. The viewing distance to your TV would be too close. Also, using the equalizer for -20° horizontal will sound better for positions other than the listening position, compared to the equalizer for the 30° and 40° listening angle.
To save you a lot of reading, here is the summary of my findings:
For a 30° listening angle to your speakers, the advisable distance between your speakers and your TV for a 40° degree viewing angle is:
Code:
55" TV:
Speaker distance to each other: 192 cm (76 inches) or more
Speaker distance to the TV: 27 cm (10.5 inches) or more
65" TV:
Speaker distance to each other: 228 cm (90 inches) or more
Speaker distance to the TV: 36 cm (13 inches) or more
77" TV:
Speaker distance to each other: 269 cm (106 inches) or more
Speaker distance to the TV: 41 cm (16 inches) or more
Bear in mind that these are the minimum speaker distances to your TV. You will be very close to your TV. If you do not have enough room to even achieve this, or if you want a lower TV viewing angle than 40°, you will have to break the 30° listening angle to your speakers to, for example, 20°.
If you want to take a look at how I came to the conclusion that speakers placed very close to your TV is not preferable, you can read this:
Let's look at some numbers, to see how far away the listener would ideally have to sit with a 65" TV. Let's assume you place the Dali's 10 cm (4 inches) away from either side of your TV. With a 65" TV, plus the half width of the speakers to get the length from the left to the right tweeter, we are talking about 180 cm (71 inches) between each speaker. The listener would then sit at 180 cm (71 inches) from either speaker, which is 156 cm (61 inches) away from the TV. This is too close, even when you take the recommended minimum viewing distance by THX, which is 40° of the viewer’s field of vision. According to THX, the recommended viewing distance to your TV for a 65" TV is 197-284 cm (78-112 inches), which translates to a 40°-28° viewer's field of vision (do not confuse this with the 30° of the speakers we are talking about).
To make this easier to read, here is a summary for a 55", 65" and 77" TV with the speakers 10 cm (4 inches) away from the TV:
55" TV:
Distance between speakers: 158 cm (62 inches)
Distance between listener position and speakers: 158 cm (62 inches)
Distance between TV and listener position: 137 cm (54 inches)
65" TV:
Distance between speakers: 180 cm (71 inches)
Distance between listener position and speakers: 180 cm (71 inches)
Distance between TV and listener position: 156 cm (61 inches)
Still too close.
77" TV, same rules as above:
Distance between speakers: 208 cm (82 inches)
Distance between listener position and speakers: 208 cm (82 inches)
Distance between TV and listener position: 180 cm (61 inches)
The advised viewing distance to your TV will decrease or increase accordingly, so no matter the size of your TV, a 30° angle to your speakers is unadvisable. However, we assumed a distance of 10 cm to the TV and the speakers. If you increase this distance, then you can get to an advised viewing distance to your TV. For the recommended minimum distances between your TV and speakers to get to an advisable viewing distance of your TV, with a 30° angle to your speakers, take a look above this spoiler.
Here are the parametric and graphic filters for a -20° horizontal position of your speakers, equalized from 80hz to 15khz:
The lowest frequency (-3dB) changes from 85 dB to 65 dB, or 60 dB if you use the 10 parametric filters version.
I also added a graph of the frequency response.
