DAC with preamp

[BgokComp]

id like to buy a dac so i preferably connect it directly to some pa amplifier as stageline 1000d , it has a xlr input,
bluetooth is must and also a async usb ,
ive search the forums and Amir's latest review and i have some doubt between topping ex5 and 50s and smsl a9 .
my budget is 350$ or lower .
mqa is not must .

my main concern is gain match with the amplifier

 

[Yasser 06]

Most recent "desktop" dac do have variable output(s), or the option to control the output level. It seems that the market is mostly for people using active loudspeaker hencefore the volume control.

Note that by pre-amp we mean here a volume control, not something accepting phono input or even line level analogical inputs.

The problem with "desktop" DAC is that they usually have very narrow connectivity (the standard being 1 optical, 1 caox, 1 usb).

More traditionnal DAC usually have more connectivity but are designed to be used with an integrated amp or a pre-amp. You may get some with adjustable gain but such a feature is usually available only on high end models, gain adjustment for the headphone output (when it exist) is much more common and can be found even on budget devices. As example the Teac U 501 is a very good and well build DAC (10 years old so its measurements are probably worse than the one of a 30 euros recent DAC(, it has penty of feature but no voume control.

I do think that, among others, the cambridge dac magic serie devices have a variable volume for their ouput and decent connectivity, but as already said most chinese clones (Topping, SMSL, FX audi, Lockjie, etc...) also offer adjustable output level. It is by now almost a standard, but there are exception - as example i think that FX audio X6 had a fixed ouput level while the FX audio Mk2 has adjustable output).

 

[BgokComp]

thanks @Yasser 06 , so with ex5 i will be fine ? i dont need any other source expect the dac itself ,my concern is if i will need to the chain a pream or i can connect the dac directly to power amp using it balanced outputs, as understand the input senseivity for pa amplifier is 1.4v , case all dac with volume control would be fine ,is there better alternative expect the ex5 ?( same price range )

 

[Yasser 06]

thanks @Yasser 06 , so with ex5 i will be fine ? i dont need any other source expect the dac itself ,my concern is if i will need to the chain a pream or i can connect the dac directly to power amp using it balanced outputs, as understand the input senseivity for pa amplifier is 1.4v , case all dac with volume control would be fine ,is there better alternative expect the ex5 ?( same price range )

Yes i m quite sure, it got positive measurement and the headphone section is good.

Indeed variable output level is the norm, on some you can bypass the volume control, on other you simply put the volume to 100%.

Depending on the models the headphone volume is separated from the line out one, but basic product like th EX5 usually have a single volume control.

Here is what i found :
These inputs can be routed to 3 different output options, which are the headphone output, and either the single-ended and 4-pin XLR outputs. These outputs can be turned on or off individually, except for the headphone out which can only be on if both pre-outs are off.

So there is a pre-out,i it unclear if the volume control is the same for XLR and RCA. So we know that we can disable the pre out but it is unclear if we can disable the outputs.

It has bluetooth reception with state if the art codec, but I use B transmission much more so it is not really usefull.
It can decode MQA monstruous attempt by a rogue compagny to privatise music format, MQA is not any better than high quality flac , so unless you are a Tidal subcriver (in such case i suggest you Quobuz, Amazon or spotify) it is also useless.

But overall it is apparently a very good value for price all 1 one DAC/pre amp/phone amplifier.

​

 

[b7676]

Output from topping balanced out is 4v
Output from topping rca is 2v

ex5 is autorecommended when you don't want to add a bluetooth module to a dac, if you desire an internal powersupply, or refuse a dac+amp stack.

ESS top of line E50 should not be audibly better but not too many have been bought yet.
D10b (low power ESS) is not thought as highly of as AKM e30.
You could do e30 rca to xlr or I think it has been discussed trying to run two e30.

 

[Yasser 06]

Output from topping balanced out is 4v
Output from topping rca is 2v

ex5 is autorecommended when you don't want to add a bluetooth module to a dac, if you desire an internal powersupply, or refuse a dac+amp stack.

ESS top of line E50 should not be audibly better but not too many have been bought yet.
D10b (low power ESS) is not thought as highly of as AKM e30.
You could do e30 rca to xlr or I think it has been discussed trying to run two e30.

I would sort of agree but what people usually need is BT transmission not reception. Why would you stream for your phone when your DAC is connected to your computer(s) , playstations, CD, flac streamer ? Anyone can control its streamer with a phone (mpd or commecial interface built above or similar licenced product or DLNA).

What you cannot do is listen to your BT headphone (Sony WMX, the new audio technica atHm50x BT2) or BT headphone amp (shanling u4, fiio BTr5 and similar products). With proper codecs quality is quite better than even on Senheisser radio headpones.

So with BT reception you still need to plug in a transmitter such as the Fiio BTA30 (i use a vikephone that cost 1/4 of the fiio price).

IF BT connection was two ways i would consider it as a major asset, but reception only ? I rarely use it.

Note also that a device like the Fiio BTA30 (other one) can be connected to one of you digital input (the 25 euro Vikephone has both digital and analogical input and ouputs). Hopefully if you connect your BT receiver with its digital ouput, the receiver just transalate the BT codec into PCM which should be purely numerical and so it should be affected by the quality of the receiver -- i truly hope that the receiver is not generating an analogical signal and turn it into digital using a cheap CAD --.

I saw a review by @Amir of two BT receiver/transmitter, the fiio and another one and the result was that given the current BT codec quality they were doing quite ok.

 

[BgokComp]

@Yasser 06 ,have an option buying the d90 second hand with same price as the ex5 ,is it worth it ?is there major difference between them ?

 

[Yasser 06]

I would go for the one with power amp. I almost bought a D90 second hand, but asked the seller why he was reselling it. He was honest and told me that he disliked the sound and the interface. So i went for the Advance Paris Dx1 that he adviced me (it was on sale 380 euros).

Be careful because most of the chatter about D90 or things like the SMSL M400 is coming from peoples who :

- listen to sounds rather than to the music.
- Have trained ears and do listening sessions, some have treated rooms.
- Have very high end amplifier and loudspeakers, with the loudspeakers carefully positioned.
- Often do have incentives to make you buy stuff , such has getting free gear to keep a long time or comissions (this is the worst possible case) . At first i though that some youtubers were just people with a passion but the number of videos they produce indicate that it is a job. None is performing blind tests. @Amir on some ASR testers are the only ones that actually work (running actual measurement) and provide objective data.


Most users will probably : either don't make a difference, or prefer just a random DAC, or they may actually make a difference (distinguishing who is who with a blind test and equalized level of volume) but without being sure which one they prefer.

Also i tend to believe that the chip used in the D90 produces aggresive , to detailled sound, but this is subjective and i never ran a blind test. I did A/B testing with the D50s and my old micromega mydac (you can now get a used one it for 50 euros). First i found the D50s to be more precise with faster transcient and more details; but after listening a long time my conclusion was that the D50 was "tiring" and too detailled and sharp. This is purely subjective.

The Ex5/D90 use a similar chip, the ES9038 - pro or not - and i do think that the cyrus logic they use in their new products (d30 pro) is more "analogical" and soft, but aware that this may be bullshit.

Also the interface on the D90 is super bad, two tactical buttons for up/down.

May be just buy it an resell it and get your the EX5.

Note that the filter and phase tuning of the ES chips are 100% worhtless, they on the chip so any device with it will offer it. The phase filter is not audible, the sound color is but most people end up using the neutral sound.

I think that i m gonna get this : https://www.mav-audio.com/store/index.php/dac/tube-magic-dac-d1-5670.html
old fashioned interface, analogical in and old style volume control ... and it is way cheaper.