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DAC with Equaliser and/or Room Correction.

MSNWatch

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I wish the Link had a sub out so that you could use ARC for the sub and optimize the L & R speaker - sub combination. The Amp does have a sub out so you can use it in that way but you are limited to using the 50w/channel amp which in my listening tests is pretty good. And with the amp you only have a single analog input. Here is image of the innards of the PW-Amp for those who are way more technically proficient than me:

paradigm-pw-amp-recensie-foto-3.jpg
 

GGroch

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Edit, my mistake, I see this is not addressed in the PW/Link manual, but I see no reason it should not work well. The lowest frequencies are after all where room EQ will usually have the biggest impact.

For buying alternatives: In the U.S. you can buy the PW Link from Paradigm Direct through their eBay store. Its priced at the same $157 but they accept offers, and accepted mine earlier for a modest discount below the listing price. In retrospect, I should have requested a more major discount ;) not sure what their bottom price is.
 
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MSNWatch

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I don’t see it in the link manual. And I think you’ll find this is the best $1xx you’ve spent on your system.
 

GGroch

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I don’t see it in the link manual.....

Your are right, I was reading the Forte/Amp manual. I will modify my post above.

Still, if you already have a sub connected to your system that is adjusted reasonably well, the link should make things far better in terms of bass management. My guess is the 5 point mic placement does most of the work and it probably does not matter much whether the sound is from 2 or 2+1 speakers. Perhaps David Rich's article you reference above address it more directly.
 
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Sal1950

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RayDunzl

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Why? What could it possibly do beyond the Acourate software your using now?

My first thought is to put it in-line with what I have, and do either pre- or post- correction correction.

If not good with that, I can think of some other applications for it.
 

Sal1950

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Colinp

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Thanks for the tip on the Paradigm units being on sale. Ordered a pw link last week from Paradigm - excited to see how it goes. $207 cdn was an easy decision.

I've used Audyssey and minidsp/dirac live in the past. Will be neat to see the differences; they are also rolling out better software later this month.
 

watchnerd

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Edit, my mistake, I see this is not addressed in the PW/Link manual, but I see no reason it should not work well. The lowest frequencies are after all where room EQ will usually have the biggest impact.

For buying alternatives: In the U.S. you can buy the PW Link from Paradigm Direct through their eBay store. Its priced at the same $157 but they accept offers, and accepted mine earlier for a modest discount below the listing price. In retrospect, I should have requested a more major discount ;) not sure what their bottom price is.

I see the PW Link on eBay for $174, and the PW Amp for $224.
 

GGroch

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I see the PW Link on eBay for $174, and the PW Amp for $224.

Paradigm U.S. is accepting offers on both of the above listings. I offered $147.05 to them on the PW-Link and they accepted. That was 2 weeks ago and their asking price on the link then was $157...but offer $147 or less and see what happens. These seem to be the best prices at the moment, especially considering you get the full warranty.

I have not opened my PW- Link yet, but have been using the amp on my desktop system and the ARC software works very well there.
It memorizes your measurements then you can go back and adjust your equalization as many times as you wish without remeasuring. The amp sounds great but I am not taxing it.

There are 2 firmware updates that got auto-applied through WiFi when I set up the amp. The Play-fi firmware updated through the Play-fi app, and the ARC/Paradigm firmware was updated through the Arc App.
 

Worth Davis

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Ive messed around with variations of these topics quite a bit.

I think a good way to get into to all of this is one of two ways:

1 - REW + a mic + Roon (put some REW recommenations into Roon) (75 + free + Roon demo)
2 - Buy a Minidsp Dirac 24a (buy the minidsp mic for REW in step 1) and use Dirac (399+mic)

1 is mostly limited to 2.0 channel without extensive knowledge and additional tweaks
2 is probably the most cost effective way to do all of these things while keeping it separate from preamp/receiver purchases for 2.1 or 2.2 specifically

If you like Dirac and still want a better quality device the SHD line looks good too, but I havent run one. The 88a series is good for multichannel up to 8 channels.

If you dont like Minidsp/Dirac I think you can dump it on the used market for a 15 percent haircut - pretty fair cost of entry IMHO.
 

Worth Davis

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What is the benefit of using the Dirac over the basic or HD MiniDSP devices?

Auto correction software instead of doing it by hand...

I find using a laptop as a source for everything to be limiting as I like 2.2 instead of 2.0 as well. Everything can be worked around, but option two is everything you need for 2.2 plus correction software. I don't advocate that its better than doing it by hand, or Audyssey, or Accuorate, etc - its just fairly cost effective and works.

You can spend $6k on a big 16 channel ATMOS/Dirac processor if you want or go throw your wallet at Dataset or one of the many others if you like, its your money!
 

Jaimo

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Ive messed around with variations of these topics quite a bit.

I think a good way to get into to all of this is one of two ways:

1 - REW + a mic + Roon (put some REW recommenations into Roon) (75 + free + Roon demo)
2 - Buy a Minidsp Dirac 24a (buy the minidsp mic for REW in step 1) and use Dirac (399+mic)

1 is mostly limited to 2.0 channel without extensive knowledge and additional tweaks
2 is probably the most cost effective way to do all of these things while keeping it separate from preamp/receiver purchases for 2.1 or 2.2 specifically

If you like Dirac and still want a better quality device the SHD line looks good too, but I havent run one. The 88a series is good for multichannel up to 8 channels.

If you dont like Minidsp/Dirac I think you can dump it on the used market for a 15 percent haircut - pretty fair cost of entry IMHO.

I am in the process of implementing option1 above. I ran a few sweeps with my old speakers and found loads of online guides for using REW and a UMIK-1 mic. REW also supports a house curve implementation. I will do the exercise again this weekend with my new speakers and then generate a file for Roon.

This looks like a simple and cost effective way to obtain reasonable room correction. I will report back soon.
 

TimW

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Just got my Paradigm PW Link set up. I offered $145.50 for it on ebay and they accepted and got it to me a week later. Compared to my experience using REW with a minidsp or Roon, Anthem was a breeze. The software connects to the PW Link over the network and everything is automated so all you have to do is position the mic and press next. Of course most AVR room correction systems are about as easy but the results I got with Anthem far surpass the results I've gotten with older Audyssey systems. In fact the results are even better then what I've been able to achieve using REW. This is probably due to my ignorance in how to implement room correction and the limited bands available with something like a basic minidsp. But if you're inexperienced with room correction like me and want a quick and easy way to get better sound for a very reasonable price, the PW Link is an excellent option. For room correction that is...

I have not spent much time with it but Play-Fi has not been very enjoyable. I heard some people are able to use it with Roon if Play-Fi is installed on the same computer but I couldn't get that working right now. Using Tidal with it means signing into your Tidal account and using the Play-Fi app for control. Can't use the Tidal app like you can with cast devices. And worst of all playback is not gap-less. That just sucks.

I will probably just use the PW Link as a pass-through processing device and ignore its volume control and streaming capabilities. Problem is I have a few different sources I would like to use with it and there are only two inputs, Toslink and RCA. I really hope @amirm gets around to measuring this or at least the PW Amp because it would be nice to know if there are any serious design flaws with the ADC or DAC in these devices. The Link and Amp are probably very similar in design from the looks of it. The link's enclosure was clearly designed to fit an amplifier in it. The Link is just a little circuit board in a very empty enclosure. The only reason I can tell is because I can see through the excessive amount of cooling holes that clearly aren't necessary. Regardless it is a nice looking product in my opinion.

I have attached the Anthem room correction result printout.
 

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GGroch

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Tim, Thanks for the report on your PW-Link experience. I see that Anthem has just today released Arc version 3 (Genesis) for Mac and Windows.

Like you I am using the link primarily as a pass through with a preamp doing source switching. It works well between pre and power amp, or in my case between a DAC and powered speakers.

Play-Link devices are seen as connect devices on the Spotify app, and as a renderer on BubbleUpnP....so I do not have to use the Play-fi app for those. Like you I have read that Play-fi devices can be used as end points if you are running both Play-fi and Roon on a Windows Desktop. It is possible you would have to pay for the Play-Fi Windows upgrade for that to work.

I have also been impressed by the ARC room eq, but I have no experience with REW so have no comparison. David Rich released a series of articles about using Arc room correction in Secrets of High Fidelity a few years ago. Link to one of them here. Like you say, basic use is pretty simple, but there are a lot of parameters you can adjust, and most of those are beyond my experience with it so far.
 
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MSNWatch

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I sent Amir both an amp and a link some time back so measurements should be coming in the future.

Love these devices and find that the amp can drive anything I throw at it and has the added benefit of integrating a sub using ARC.
 

GGroch

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RE: Arc 3 Genesis for Windows/Mac. I just downloaded the new version and looked it over. In addition to being a lot more graphical, they have added a full demo mode that allows you simulate a lot of the functions without needing an ARC enabled device attached....so anyone can preview how it works. You can also choose Auto or Professional modes which controls what you can do with the measurement results. You control the modes under "Preferences"

"Auto mode asks a few simple questions about a system.....automatically calculates the correction and bass management, and uploads them to the ARC compatible device.....Professional Mode offers the full gamut of controls and allows a granular level of customization before uploading corrections...You can set levels and crossover points, customize target curves,.... etc. etc."

Arc 3 will not open your saved Arc 2 files, so you will need to remeasure. It however does not remove/replace the Arc 2 app...so you can keep the older version as well.
 

TimW

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Audioholics just released this video on how to measure with REW. Makes me want to do more messing around with the software but also reminds me I have a lot to learn about it.

Can't wait to start playing with ARC Genesis in professional mode this weekend. Hopefully it will still be easier to figure out then REW.

I'm also thinking of getting a minidsp DDRC-24 for my 2.2 setup. I expect Dirac Live to be as good as ARC if not better based on what others have said about it. If The PW Amp had a toslink input and accommodations for two subs I would buy it instead.
 
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