DAC with Equaliser and/or Room Correction.

[Willem]

The need for equalization is greatest at frequencies below the Schroeder frequency (usually somewhere between 100-200 Hz, depending on room size). If you are using full range speakers without subwoofers, measuring response and creating a correction curve with REW is a good way to proceed. If you are using a windows computer as your only source, you can upload that curve into the Equalizer Apo software, and all should be pretty well. This is what I do in my desktop system. If you want to use more sources than just a computer, you will need somethng like the miniDSP to upload your correction curve to.
If you are using subwoofers in your system an easy option would be the DSpeaker Antimode 8033 automatic dsp room eq unit for subwoofers. Installing it is truly child's play, and it does not cost an arm and a leg.
If money is not really an issue and if you want automatic full range equalization of both main speakers and subwoofers, plus automatic crossover optimization between subs and main speakers, plus a DAC and pre amplifier, there is the DSpeaker X4 that does all of this, and more.

 

[GGroch]

Here are some screenshots from the just released Anthem ARC3 Genesis Windows. The Basic/Pro modes seem very similar during measurement. The primary difference is that after measurement the Basic mode just lets you save, print to PDF, and upload the curves to the ARC device. The Pro Mode gives you options to modify your results (shown in the 2nd Jpg). ARC V2 allowed you to modify results as well, but it was not clear to me what was being adjusted. The new graphics make that more clear. The measurements are of HiVi X4 4" desktop active powered monitors through a Paradigm PW-Link. The monitors are very nice, but they have rear ports which, firing into an enclosed bookshelf cave in my desk are a nightmare for accurate bass. ARC correction made a huge difference.

BTW - I apologize for the large photos. I tried to figure out how to post just thumbnails that would expand when clicked. The forum software has the necessary controls but I was too ignorant to make them work. Is there a tutorial on that?

 

[TimW]

Just started up ARC Genesis software but don't have time to mess with it right now. @GGroch have you tried using the optical input with your PW Link? I just did and got terrible clipping if the volume on the Link was too high. This is with the anolog or digital output into either of my DACs. I tried the optical input with my CD player and a chromecast audio. I could set the PW Link to max volume without clipping only if the Chromecast volume was at %40 or less. @amirm if you review this device I would appreciate if you look into why this is happening. Unless it is just my unit doing this.

 

[GGroch]

....................@GGroch have you tried using the optical input with your PW Link? I just did and got terrible clipping if the volume on the Link was too high.....

I had not tried the optical input...but just did, and in my setup from a Chromecast Audio Toslink Out, it works as I would expect.

My CCA connects through Toslink to the PW-Link Optical Input. My DAC (which has its own analog out volume control) connects to the PW-Link Analog inputs. The PW-Link Analog out feed my active monitors. If I peg the CCA to at 100% volume, it requires lowering the PW-Link's Volume to avoid overdiving my monitors.

I do not normally run my DAC and max volume. However, if I do Max the DACs analog output, it and the CCA's toslink 100% are just about the same level. There is no distortion.

My guess is that the PW-Link is probably not distorting, its just that it is outputting more volume than the next component in the chain can handle.
If I was going to leave the CCA in my system, I would lower its volume to about 40% so that I do not have to leave the DAC output maxed to match it.

 

[TimW]

@GGroch you are right, it was the input of my integrated amplifier that was clipping. It seems odd to me that a CCA connected to my DAC via spdif and set to %100 volume wouldn't produce the same output level. Then again I suppose the PW Link is creating a new spdif signal after processing the original one.

 

[headshake]

I did not want to drop a bunch of cash and still wanted to test if I could hear any difference EQ'ing. Equalizer APO (windows only) https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/ helped me test things out. The cheap TRRS Dayton calibrated mic and a TRRS usb adapter let me see some graphs in REW.

Equalizer APO can set filters for each input and speaker. Files can be imported from REW.

I plan on Donating if it becomes my final solution.

The hypex fusionamps have my eye. The plate amp will let you EQ and save as 3 presets.

 

[mi-fu]

Hi, for those who have the Paradigm PW Link or Amp,

Does the Paradigm automatically show up as a UPnP in the network?

I'm planning to buy the Paradigm PW Link, but not sure if this will work:

I am running Audirvana on my computer with a hard disk of DSD files. If the Paradigm Link shows up as a UPnP device on Audirvana, then I can stream DSD (in 192k Hz) to it. Then use the Paradigm to do EQ and output the EQ'ed signal through Toslink to my DAC, then to speakers?

Will it work like this?

 

[GGroch]

mi-fu,

DTS Play-Fi, is the Wifi system used by the PW-Link/Amp. Googling Play-Fi should get you the most up to date information.

I understand that:
- Play-Fi does not handle DSD files, they would have to be converted to a compatible format 1st.
- Play-Fi devices do not show up directly on a UPnP / DNLA server. They have to be routed through the Play-Fi App

A couple of initial links:
- Play-Fi True Lossless (btw now up to 192K)
- Major Design Flaws

 

[BillG]

Hi, for those who have the Paradigm PW Link or Amp,

Does the Paradigm automatically show up as a UPnP in the network?

DTS Play-Fi devices, of which both of those are, show up as DLNA devices when accessed by other software other than the Play-Fi apps. And one may not be able to connect to them via DLNA alone - I've only been able to with mine using BubbleUPnP as other DLNA/UPnP apps (on Android and Windows 10) fail to do so. However, the Play-Fi app will access DLNA servers.

I am running Audirvana on my computer with a hard disk of DSD files. If the Paradigm Link shows up as a UPnP device on Audirvana, then I can stream DSD (in 192k Hz) to it.

The Windows version of the Play-Fi app includes a renderer that should be able to a stream up to and including 24/192. However, to stream high-res, one needs to pay $15USD for it. Without the purchase, it's plain old 16/44...

 

[mi-fu]

Thanks @GGroch and @BillG for the info! It is very helpful.

But the sad news is I just realize Play-fi doesn't have an app for Mac.

I think I have to figure other possible ways to make it work...

 

[SEKLEM]

You could run Dirac as software on the PC (which is what I used), or use a player plug-in with parametric EQ. Otherwise the minidsp seems like the right solution to me.

So in a living room setup, w/out a PC you recommend MiniDSP, but otherwise if a PC is not in the sound system you recommend software on PC for parametric EQ, or Dirac (which I assume is self adjusting with user modification options to tailor to the listener preference)?

 

[SEKLEM]

There are quite a few articles on ARC correction which seems highly regarded.

Does that system allow user adjustments to the parametric EQ, or do we need the MiniDSP or similar device for that kind of flexibility?

 

[GGroch]

Does that system allow user adjustments to the parametric EQ, or do we need the MiniDSP or similar device for that kind of flexibility?

You can make quite a few adjustments, but I do not think you can directly boost particular frequencies by hand. See the screenshots posted here. There are 10 parameters in the "Adjust Target" you can control. Arc Requires a PC/MAC/IOS/Android in the same room to measure (with included mic) and upload. Once your curves are saved, you can switch or adjust from any PC/MAC/IOS/Android on the same WiFi Network. The newest PC software ARC Genesis is free to download and has a good demo mode.

I am not totally familiar with the options yet. But David Rich wrote a long series of articles on older ARC versions in Secrets of Home Theater.

 

[BillG]

Thanks @GGroch and @BillG for the info! It is very helpful.

But the sad news is I just realize Play-fi doesn't have an app for Mac.

I think I have to figure other possible ways to make it work...

If you're interested in setting up a music server on your Mac, which might be a good workaround, I'd suggest Emby:

https://emby.media/about.html

The freeware version is more than adequate for home use, and is rather easy to configure - bonus: the Web interface for the server, and the UI of the client apps, is rather attractive and professionally done.

While it has its own clients (for Android, iOS, Windows, etc.) it's also accessible via DLNA clients, thus making it accessible to the Play-Fi iOS app if you wish to use it with an iDevice for streaming to the Paradigm...

 

[BillG]

But the sad news is I just realize Play-fi doesn't have an app for Mac.

I got curious about the above and did a little digging:


https://play-fi.com/faq/entry/set-up-using-a-web-browser

That might be the answer to your problem...

 

[mi-fu]

I got curious about the above and did a little digging:


https://play-fi.com/faq/entry/set-up-using-a-web-browser

That might be the answer to your problem...

Thanks!!!!!!!

Then probably it would work!

Actually I do have REW and a minidsp mic, but I found it too complicated to use. If this works, Paradigm PW link / amp would be an excellent easy-to-use solution for room correction!

 

[TimW]

@GGroch have you tried adjusting the target parameters in ARC Genesis to find what you like most? I have measured my room a few times now and have one that I think is pretty accurate using 5 measurement positions. I find that I don't like a high room gain setting or any deep bass boost because it seems to detract or maybe just distract me from the midrange. Where I'm conflicted is what to set the maximum correction to. Lately I've been limiting it to 500 Hz to keep equalization in the region where the room is affecting frequency response. Many people recommend not correcting much over the Schroeder frequency of the room which is probably 200 Hz or less. On the other hand my speakers are slightly V shaped in response and I kind of like how they sound with ARC correcting up to 5 kHz. Do you have any opinions on this?

 

[mi-fu]

It seems that the PW link would clip easily. It happens to me when I connect my Topping D10 to with through RCA or using Chromecast audio through optical. Both will clip.

I also hear distortion occasionally (the volume of PW link is set around 50%)

 

[mi-fu]

Also, the optical output of PW link seems can't go beyond 48k.

 

[veeceem]

You could run Dirac as software on the PC (which is what I used), or use a player plug-in with parametric EQ. Otherwise the minidsp seems like the right solution to me.

@amirm can you get into detail of how you set it up on PC? Use the software to adjust the sound output in the pc to usb DAC?
I have no clue if a compatible hardware (DAC/amp/AVR with Dirac built-in) is needed in this case, or the software + mỉcrophone only?
Thanks