DAC with DSP for FIR filters?

[Jas0_0]

Hi all,

I am setting up a system in my kitchen. I plan to keep it as simple as possible. iPad > DAC > small Genelecs.

I would like to add DSP to the chain, using FIR filters generated by Audiolense. So far I can’t see a way to do system-wide audio capture and convolution on the iPad (if anyone has found a means, I’m all ears), so I’m looking at hardware.

The discontinued MiniDSP OpenDRC DA would have been perfect. Are there any other DACs out there that support FIR filters?

Thanks in advance.

James

 

[abdo123]

The miniDSP 2*4 HD supports FIR filters, i think 1024 taps per channel for 4 channels. And 2048 taps per channel for 2 channels.

And you also have an option for DIRAC in the future.

 

[abdo123]

Ofcourse the MiniDSP SHD is also an option.

 

[Jas0_0]

Thanks Abdo, unfortunately 2048 is too few for the FIR filters from Audiolense

 

[Jas0_0]

I should also have added that ideally I’d like balanced outputs to support long cable runs

 

[Jas0_0]

Ofcourse the MiniDSP SHD is also an option.

Unfortunately that only supports Dirac and can’t take FIR filters from other DRC software

 

[abdo123]

Unfortunately that only supports Dirac and can’t take FIR filters from other DRC software

Uhmm... i would double check that info if i were you.

Because both of then use the same processor and software.

 

[Jas0_0]

Uhmm... i would double check that info if i were you.

Because both of then use the same processor and software.

Thanks Abdo, I’ve read that the factory installation of Dirac means the SHD won’t accept other means of DSP.

I realise I’m being really fussy here, so apologies. The SHD seems great and Amir’s revealed it measures superbly, but it’s also quite a large unit, expensive, and provides a lot of functionality that I don’t need e.g. ADC, streamer, 4 analogue outs, Dirac.

I should have been more specific in my initial post. Basically all I want is something equivalent in size and functionality to the OpenDRC DA - ideally for no more than the price of a decent DAC such as the RME Adi-2 DAC FS.

I wonder if I’m asking too much?!

 

[abdo123]

Thanks Abdo, I’ve read that the factory installation of Dirac means the SHD won’t accept other means of DSP.

I realise I’m being really fussy here, so apologies. The SHD seems great and Amir’s revealed it measures superbly, but it’s also quite a large unit, expensive, and provides a lot of functionality that I don’t need e.g. ADC, streamer, 4 analogue outs, Dirac.

I should have been more specific in my initial post. Basically all I want is something equivalent in size and functionality to the OpenDRC DA - ideally for no more than the price of a decent DAC such as the RME Adi-2 DAC FS.

I wonder if I’m asking too much?!

Yes you kinda are asking too much, FIR filtering is a (relatively) resource intensive process that would require a full fledged Digital signal processor.

You will not find a product that does only FIR processing, because that means that all IIR based operations that the processor will also be capable of doing (very easily) will be removed for no reason (that makes comercial sense).

When you add DAC + balanced outputs functionality then you’re immediately looking at a luxury niche product. Or some serious DIY work.

 

[abdo123]

BTW it appears that you can't put FIR filters on the MiniDSP SHD the same way you can MiniDSP 2*4 via the plugin, so sorry about that.

 

[Jas0_0]

I suppose the fact that miniDSP discontinued the OpenDRC DA backs up what you’re saying

 

[abdo123]

I suppose the fact that miniDSP discontinued the OpenDRC DA backs up what you’re saying

Have you thought of using Roon btw? With a small NUC computer?

it basically gives you all the features a MiniDSP product could offer and a convolution engine for FIR filters.

you can even do crossovers if you have a multi-channel DAC.

 

[Jas0_0]

Have you thought of using Roon btw? With a small NUC computer?

it basically gives you all the features a MiniDSP product could offer and a convolution engine for FIR filters.

you can even do crossovers if you have a multi-channel DAC.

Thanks again Abdo - I was thinking of an iPad as my aim is to have a touchscreen interface that the whole family can use for audio, plus for displaying recipes etc. A NUC or maybe even a Pi could be good, if there are touchscreens available. Maybe even an old Mac mini running SoundSource and an Audio Unit convolver.

Or maybe I could just stick with the iPad idea and use a miniDSP OpenDRC DI and a decent balanced DAC. Was just hoping there was something out there that would combine the latter two to reduce the box/cable/power socket count.

 

[abdo123]

Thanks again Abdo - I was thinking of an iPad as my aim is to have a touchscreen interface that the whole family can use for audio, plus for displaying recipes etc. A NUC or maybe even a Pi could be good, if there are touchscreens available. Maybe even an old Mac mini running SoundSource and an Audio Unit convolver.

Or maybe I could just stick with the iPad idea and use a miniDSP OpenDRC DI and a decent balanced DAC. Was just hoping there was something out there that would combine the latter two to reduce the box/cable/power socket count.

Roon can be controlled via an App (with full functionality, other than editing the DSP engine) on every smart phone or tablet. So the Core (a PC) can be tucked somewhere in a corner. and an end-point (raspberry pi, streamer DAC, AVR, Any device with roon installed) can be anywhere in your house, all connected via Wifi.

also, you have support for multi-zone in the DSP engine, so if you want filters for your headphones, and filters for your speakers. They can all be enabled individually for their respective zones. It's really really powerful.

 

[Jas0_0]

Thanks Abdo, would this also allow me to apply DRC to Tidal, internet radio, podcasts, YouTube etc - basically any audio coming from an iPad?

 

[abdo123]

Thanks Abdo, would this also allow me to apply DRC to Tidal, internet radio, podcasts, YouTube etc - basically any audio coming from an iPad?

Not really, Roon supports Radio, Qobuz, Tidal and locally stored files (on the Core PC). So for other activities you would need a dedicated device.

but i think having the playback device not connected to any kinds of cables and still getting the correction you need is worth the setback.

 

[voodooless]

If you really need a lot of taps, a software solution will be the most flexible. Take a Pi4 with some streamer distro add BruteFIR and a USB DAC and be done with it. That will work pretty well. There are more than enough ways to control these using apps.

The real question is: do you really need so many taps? You really don't need that many taps to make a proper system. Look at what Dirac does with their mixed filters. They get low delay, and still manage to give you proper impulse response and also get room correction down to the lowest notes. Obviously, this is much harder to do DIY.

 

[Draki]

Hi all,

I am setting up a system in my kitchen. I plan to keep it as simple as possible. iPad > DAC > small Genelecs.

I would like to add DSP to the chain, using FIR filters generated by Audiolense. So far I can’t see a way to do system-wide audio capture and convolution on the iPad (if anyone has found a means, I’m all ears), so I’m looking at hardware.

The discontinued MiniDSP OpenDRC DA would have been perfect. Are there any other DACs out there that support FIR filters?

Thanks in advance.

James

Another option would be OpenDRC-DI with Acourate DRC and a separate DAC (Topping E30 ....)

 

[somebodyelse]

I'm with voodooless on the Pi suggestion, with a couple of possible variations. Moode is supposed to be using CamillaDSP instead of BruteFIR, wtih broadly similar features. The other uses the Pi as a USB audio device to feed Brute or Camilla, then outputs to USB or a hat, but AFAIK nobody's actually assembled the components so problems will probably appear.

 

[dasdoing]

If you really need a lot of taps, a software solution will be the most flexible. Take a Pi4 with some streamer distro add BruteFIR and a USB DAC and be done with it. That will work pretty well. There are more than enough ways to control these using apps.

The real question is: do you really need so many taps? You really don't need that many taps to make a proper system. Look at what Dirac does with their mixed filters. They get low delay, and still manage to give you proper impulse response and also get room correction down to the lowest notes. Obviously, this is much harder to do DIY.

2048 taps has a very limited resolution for filters in the bass region.
example:

blue is the wanted correction, red is the result with 2048 taps