DAC with display, remote, BT, opt/coax input and warmest sound

[boblo]

It must have:
- Display
- Remote control
- BT 5.0 receiver or higher, with aptX HD and LDAC support
- Optical/coaxial input (for a Compact Disc player), besides USB input for full performance
- Warmest sound possible (simulating tube amp sound if possible)
- Is Full MQA decoding desirable? (I wonder). I have a Tidal Hi-Fi subscription, but don't know if MQA is a marketing gimmick or is worth it. Would USB Audio Player Pro with MQA plugin be sufficient for this?

Use cases:
- I'm going to connect my CD player and my smartphone (Sony Xperia XZ2, with LDAC support) to the DAC. I intend to connect my smartphone to the DAC with USB cable for playing Hi-Res files (DSD, 24/32 bit FLAC) and wirelessly for playing Tidal Masters. Is this correct?

My sound system:
- Denon DCD-1450 CD Player
- Vincent SV-236 tube amplifier (hybrid class A - A/B)
- Bose 901 Series VI speakers

My candidates:
- SMSL SU-9 (I'm interested in the SOUND COLOR feature, especially the 3 tube sound modes)
- Topping D50s
- Topping DX3 Pro
- SMSL M200

- Max budget: €400 (about $487)

Is the SMSL SU-9 worth every penny? It's the most expensive of the list. Keep in mind that I'm looking for the warmest sound as a priority. Other candidates are welcome.

Thanks in advance for your advices

 

[Zek]

Keep in mind that I'm looking for the warmest sound as a priority.

I think you are on the wrong place with yours request. Here, they will immediately tell you that all DACs are equally transparent and cannot sound warm.

 

[Sukie]

If you're using USB Audio Player Pro then this will do the 1st MQA unfold. Personally I wouldn't spend extra on an MQA DAC. USBAPP will give you up to 88.2 KhZ. You won't need any more than that - arguably, in terms of audibility, you wouldn't even need that.

If you're happy to connect your smartphone to the DAC with a USB cable then you can do this for both Hi-Res FLAC files and also for Tidal Masters using USBAPP.

The Topping D50s will do the job for you. BT and op/coax inputs, Remote and display.
The SMSL SU-9 is a nice piece of kit. It measures well and is a great price for full MQA Decoder and balanced output - if that's what you want.

All good DACs (well engineered, not broken and not deliberately coloured/distorted) won't sound warm (or cold, or anything). They'll just convert your digital signal to an analogue signal and give your transparency. If you want to introduce "warmth", or anything else, you're best off doing that through equalising.

 

[Taddpole]

- BT 5.0 receiver or higher, with aptX HD and LDAC support

Why when you intend to attach CD player and phone with cables?

 

[MDAguy]

I think we established on here already that all DAC's sound the same

 

[boblo]

If you're using USB Audio Player Pro then this will do the 1st MQA unfold. Personally I wouldn't spend extra on an MQA DAC. USBAPP will give you up to 88.2 KhZ. You won't need any more than that - arguably, in terms of audibility, you wouldn't even need that.

But is not Tidal Master on 24 bit / 96kHz? If UAPP is going to support up to 88.2kHz, how about Master tracks?

If you're happy to connect your smartphone to the DAC with a USB cable then you can do this for both Hi-Res FLAC files and also for Tidal Masters using USBAPP.

Well, ideally I would like to use the BT connection (LDAC) for most of the time with Tidal non-MQA tracks (I know it's not possible to decode MQA through BT connection) and 'normal' tracks (16 bit / 44.1kHz), and leave aside the USB connection for tracks with higher sample rate and/or bit depth.

The Topping D50s will do the job for you. BT and op/coax inputs, Remote and display.

I agree, but the lack of power supply concerns me. I have to add an iPad/iPhone power supply in order to use it. I'm not confident with this. In addition, I have read that you can feel the difference between the ES9038QM (mobile version, isn't it?) and the ES9038PRO (desktop version) chipsets. That being said, I'm not sure if I could feel that difference with my sound system. What do you think?

The SMSL SU-9 is a nice piece of kit. It measures well and is a great price for full MQA Decoder and balanced output - if that's what you want.

I'm not sure if I could feel the difference between MQA hardware decoding and software decoding with my sound system either.

All good DACs (well engineered, not broken and not deliberately coloured/distorted) won't sound warm (or cold, or anything). They'll just convert your digital signal to an analogue signal and give your transparency. If you want to introduce "warmth", or anything else, you're best off doing that through equalising.

I take note of that. But is not the Sound Color feature of SU-9 a kind of subtle equalisation?

Many thanks

 

[boblo]

- BT 5.0 receiver or higher, with aptX HD and LDAC support

Why when you intend to attach CD player and phone with cables?

Well, ideally I would like to use the BT connection (LDAC) for most of the time with Tidal non-MQA tracks (I know it's not possible to decode MQA through BT connection) and 'normal' tracks (16 bit / 44.1kHz), and leave aside the USB connection for tracks with higher sample rate and/or bit depth.

For convenience only, there is no other reason. Correct me if I'm wrong with this decision.

 

[boblo]

I think we established on here already that all DAC's sound the same

Are you kidding?

 

[Zek]

Are you kidding?

 

[Count Arthur]

Are you kidding?

No, but that should perhaps be expanded to say "All GOOD DACs sound the the same."

If you look at the leaderboard: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-x16-review.17649/#lg=attachment94388&slide=0

Chances are you wouldn't be able to hear a difference between any of the top performing DACs in blue, but you may be able to hear the difference between a good one and one of the less well performing DACs.

 

[Chromatischism]

Are you kidding?

Nope...if you are looking for warmth, make the appropriate choice in speakers and equalization to get there.

 

[MDAguy]

Are you kidding?

as the others have already said... essentially I'm not, BUT (and this is just me speaking) ... things like the quality of the analog output section (true balanced, quality output filters, and such) matter... as does the galvanic isolation, power supply isolation, and the analogue to digital isolation are all factors that matter to me, but for reasons not necessarily provable in terms of audible differences.

Like the other said above... you can introduce "voicing" or warmth with a tube pre-amp for example, or even power amp... or choice of speaker, and other much less "digital" factors. You can even get something I'm waiting for to arrive soon, which is a Room EQ / DSP (operating fully in the digital domain) ... this is likely going to make the biggest difference in my systems' tone/sound.. stay tuned for a full review of this once I have It and have been playing with it a bit.

 

[Sukie]

But is not Tidal Master on 24 bit / 96kHz? If UAPP is going to support up to 88.2kHz, how about Master tracks?

You get the 1st unfold on USBAPP. You only get the 2nd fold will a full MQA DAC (like the the SU-9). I don't use MQA so I've reached the limit of my knowledge on this one!

I agree, but the lack of power supply concerns me. I have to add an iPad/iPhone power supply in order to use it. I'm not confident with this. In addition, I have read that you can feel the difference between the ES9038QM (mobile version, isn't it?) and the ES9038PRO (desktop version) chipsets. That being said, I'm not sure if I could feel that difference with my sound system. What do you think?

The D50s comes with a USB power cable. All you need to do is add a mains plug with USB port. I have the D50s and this is exactly what I do.

I'm not sure if I could feel the difference between MQA hardware decoding and software decoding with my sound system either.
I take note of that. But is not the Sound Color feature of SU-9 a kind of subtle equalisation?

The SU-9 does have the colour feature, buy this is very limited and offers nowhere near as much flexibility as software equalising.

Are you kidding?

See @Count Arthur's post. All DACs do not sound the same, but audible differences will only be consistently heard if you are comparing a DAC that measures well (e.g. all of the DACs that you're talking about) with a DAC that measurers badly, and I mean really badly.

There's a lot of recent discussion on the following thread, page 100 onwards

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...le-thinking-a-dac-has-a-sound-signature.9245/

 

[MDAguy]

See @Count Arthur's post. All DACs do not sound the same, but audible differences will only be consistently heard if you are comparing a DAC that measures well (e.g. all of the DACs that you're talking about) with a DAC that measurers badly, and I mean really badly.

There's a lot of recent discussion on the following thread, page 100 onwards

Before I delve into reading this very long thread... in a nutshell, was there a general conclusion as to what factors in general tend to be found in the DAC's that don't sound good?

I mean we can assume the PCM conversion to sine waves isn't at the root of the problem (the literally DAC chip)... or is it?

 

[Sukie]

Before I delve into reading this very long thread... in a nutshell, was there a general conclusion as to what factors in general tend to be found in the DAC's that don't sound good?

I mean we can assume the PCM conversion to sine waves isn't at the root of the problem (the literally DAC chip)... or is it?

If you read from page 100 then you've only got 15 pages to read (as of now). Still quite a lot, I know! I'd like to be more helpful but, as a contributor to that thread, I can't really summon up the energy to go over the arguments again. Sorry for this but I've go a few cold beers in the fridge and I'm going put my D50s to work.

 

[MDAguy]

If you read from page 100 then you've only got 15 pages to read (as of now). Still quite a lot, I know! I'd like to be more helpful but, as a contributor to that thread, I can't really summon up the energy to go over the arguments again. Sorry for this but I've go a few cold beers in the fridge and I'm going put my D50s to work.

well, with the Bay Area going back on full lock down, there's not much else to do...

Gonna go try to validate my optioning that the analogue output section of a DAC is by far the most important part of it's engineering and design!

 

[Harmonie]

Warm sounding dacs ?

Listen to the Topping E30.
Very closely.
So close that you have to put your ear on.
There you are, a warm dac that sounds great !

 

[maxxevv]

Warm sounding dacs ?

Listen to the Topping E30.
Very closely.
So close that you have to put your ear on.
There you are, a warm dac that sounds great !

I have a very 'warm' 9038Pro based one sitting at my desk at this point of time by that same token.
It has some sort of Class A output topology , hence it gets really warm to the ears (if you put them on its surfaces...) !

 

[boblo]

If you look at the leaderboard: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-x16-review.17649/#lg=attachment94388&slide=0

Chances are you wouldn't be able to hear a difference between any of the top performing DACs in blue, but you may be able to hear the difference between a good one and one of the less well performing DACs.

That list is VERY interesting... So everyone marked in blue in that list will sound equal. Therefore, the only differences among the models are features, connectivity, build quality, external appearance... Is that right?

Thank you very much indeed, now it is much easier for me to choose a DAC.

 

[M00ndancer]

So everyone marked in blue in that list will sound equal

To make things even better all except perhaps the ones in the red zone will sound equal. (and almost all in the red will too)
As you stated:

Therefore, the only differences among the models are features, connectivity, build quality, external appearance... Is that right?

YES!!!!