• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

DAC vs EQ

Gotbanjo

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2021
Messages
11
Likes
0
Need some advice. I am a frugal audiophile, finding bang for my buck is fun. So, I use an iFi Zen Blue as a source for my Reisong A10 integrated amp. To make it sound a better I am weighing two options. Route the Blue into a Topping E30 via Toslink then to the A10. Or route the Blue with RCA interconnects to a Schiit Loki, then to the A10. With the Loki I can tweak the sound in a way that I can’t with the E30. Or, use both the E30 and Loki. Suggestions welcome.
 

Sombreuil

Active Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2020
Messages
236
Likes
239
Isn't the Zen Blue already a DAC? What would another DAC add to your system, I don't get the purpose of stacking them.
 

RickSanchez

Major Contributor
Cartographer
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
1,168
Likes
2,490
Location
Austin, TX

radix

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
1,359
Likes
1,289
So you use something like Bluetooth to the ifi zen blue, then analog to the amp?

You might try putting a minidsp 2x4HD inline. That will give you full DSP processing, room correction, etc. You could feed it with the digital output of the ifi zen or keep using analog to the dsp.

Another option for the budget-conscious is to use the EQ built into various streamers, like Roon, but I think you'd need to replace the ifi zen in that case. For example, a Raspberry Pi 4 with Ropieee USB to minidsp 2x4 hd to Reisong A10.
 
OP
G

Gotbanjo

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2021
Messages
11
Likes
0
Yes, the Zen Blue has very basic DAC. But you can use it as a digital transport and not use it’s DAC. So I can feed the Zen DAC into the Loki equalizer improve the sound. Or use it as digital transport into a better E30 DAC.
 
OP
G

Gotbanjo

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2021
Messages
11
Likes
0
Minidsp 2x4HD is something that I am not familiar with. A little more info would be appreciated. Does anyone think that a 4 channel eq Loki can correct the deficiencies of the Zen Blue DAC?
 
OP
G

Gotbanjo

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2021
Messages
11
Likes
0
in another system I use a RPi 3 as a streamer, and connect it to Schiit Bifrost Mulribit. Sounda great.
 

radix

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
1,359
Likes
1,289
Minidsp 2x4HD is something that I am not familiar with. A little more info would be appreciated.

The review is here. The product page is here.

Given that the Ifi has a mediocre DAC, I'd feed the minidsp via digital in and just avoid the ifi dac. It would then use the minidsp dac to your amp. The minidsp will do full room correction. That is, you measure your room acoustics with a mic and it will automatically adjust the sound to reduce room effects. You can also use the built-in equalizer. You also get 2 outputs you could drive subs with (if you don't have those on your integrated amp). The EQ would not be as user-friendly as some other units.

Depending on your preferences or tech ability, the Lokius might be much easier to use. I don't have any experience with the Lokius, so cannot speak to it's quality. For the minidsp, you need to use special software (provided) and a special microphone ($80) on a computer that's hooked up to the minidsp USB port. This is only during configuration or when you want to change something. That said, one usually comes up with 1 or 2 or 3 EQ settings and save those into the minidsp, then not fiddle with it more. You can switch between the 4 presets pretty easily if you buy the remote for it.

In another system I use a RPi 3 as a streamer, and connect it to Schiit Bifrost Mulribit. Sounda great.

The RP4 should sound even better. It has a much better USB output, and other improvements.
 

tvrgeek

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Messages
1,017
Likes
566
Location
North Carolinia
The EQ wil not "fix" any DAC deficiency. It is not the DAC. It is the source, the room, and your ears. Differences between a cheap Dongle and a $50,000 DAC are small. Audible yes, but small. Few can hear the difference between an Atom+ and any high end DAC without good headphones. A couple dB eq off in the midrange is HUGE. Depending on the room, a gentle roll-off from 6000 can be very beneficial. We are not as sensitive in the bass.

I was looking at the Lokius, but I need a narrower cut around 3100. That human programed baby cream overtone that makes digital sounds so rough, brass brash, and some voices over sibilant. It is centered at 2K and 6K. Based on pink and MLS measurements in the room, the centers on the bass are not quite right either. So, one alternative is an old school parametric, which I don't think you can get one you would want, a 31 band pro that sounds like crap, or go digital. As I source off a PC, that works for me. I would not want to run into a A2D, eq, and D2A. That said the newer MiniDSP is getting quite good reviews.

So, yes you want EQ, but do it for the right reason.

I have a JDS Subjective. I was thinking about buggering it to the three trouble spots in my system. 3100, 400 and 600
 
OP
G

Gotbanjo

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2021
Messages
11
Likes
0
Wow. Thank you everyone. This is a lot to digest. I will dig more into everything that you have offered as improvements to the sources feeding the amp. I do think that tvrgeek is correct in saying that the difference between a Dongle and an expensive DAC are small and that is why I am considering an EQ to tweak the sound vs a better DAC, albeit an inexpensive DAC.

I have another system with a Schiit Bifrost Multibit feed from a digital out from a RPi 3 with a digi hat and Volumio software. The RPi 3 has an ethernet in. The system sounds very good. I listen to this system in a larger room. The system I am working to improve is more of a near or mid field listening system.
 

mudy

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
14
Likes
4
I have the original zen blue and e30. I think the analog output of zen blue has slightly bass boost. When digital output to e30, it sounds flatter and cleaner to me. Why not using both?
 
OP
G

Gotbanjo

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2021
Messages
11
Likes
0
Have you considered adding an EQ to adjust the the sound to your expectations/likings?
 

mudy

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
14
Likes
4
Have you considered adding an EQ to adjust the the sound to your expectations/likings?
I have the minidsp 2x4hd, it’s difficult to eq sound by using free software. I haven’t tried paid software yet. As a few previous post mentioned dac and eq are solving completely different problems. If let me pick, I will add dac first then loki.
 
Last edited:

radix

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
1,359
Likes
1,289
I have the minidsp 2x4hd, it’s difficult to eq sound by using free software. I haven’t tried paid software yet. As a few previous post mentioned dac and eq are solving completely different problems.

The DIRAC software, which is included with the 2x4 HD upgrade 2x4HD or DDRC-24, is much easier to use than REW. You need to hookup the USB mic to a computer, connect the computer to the usb port on the minidsp, then run the minidsp software. From the minidsp software, you "connect", then you launch the DIRAC software from there. Inside dirac, it walks you through measurements like an AVR does (audyssey, etc.). It then recommends a curve and you can edit it. You can save multiple curves to the minidsp, for example a "movie" vs "classical" vs "rock", if you want different EQ for those (personally, I just have 1 curve).

It is most definitely not convenient if you like to fiddle with EQ. If you want to fiddle with EQ, get a graphic or parametric EQ with knobs or sliders. Or I sometimes use the Roon EQ for a quick adjustment.

I have tried to get as much gear that is "transparent" as I can, so really all I'm fixing are room modes (DIRAC) and then a few basic EQ adjustments for my "house curve".
 
Last edited:

mudy

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
14
Likes
4
The DIRAC software, which is included with the 2x4 HD, is much easier to use than REW. You need to hookup the USB mic to a computer, connect the computer to the usb port on the minidsp, then run the minidsp software. From the minidsp software, you "connect", then you launch the DIRAC software from there. Inside dirac, it walks you through measurements like an AVR does (audyssey, etc.). It then recommends a curve and you can edit it. You can save multiple curves to the minidsp, for example a "movie" vs "classical" vs "rock", if you want different EQ for those (personally, I just have 1 curve).

It is most definitely not convenient if you like to fiddle with EQ. If you want to fiddle with EQ, get a graphic or parametric EQ with knobs or sliders. Or I sometimes use the Roon EQ for a quick adjustment.

I have tried to get as much gear that is "transparent" as I can, so really all I'm fixing are room modes (DIRAC) and then a few basic EQ adjustments for my "house curve".
The 2x4hd with dirac is $200 more expansive . The base model can be upgraded by paying the license fee.
 

Firefly00

Active Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
137
Likes
96
Location
New Zealand
Need some advice. I am a frugal audiophile, finding bang for my buck is fun. So, I use an iFi Zen Blue as a source for my Reisong A10 integrated amp. To make it sound a better I am weighing two options. Route the Blue into a Topping E30 via Toslink then to the A10. Or route the Blue with RCA interconnects to a Schiit Loki, then to the A10. With the Loki I can tweak the sound in a way that I can’t with the E30. Or, use both the E30 and Loki. Suggestions welcome.
MiniDSP is a much better EQ. Zen Blue digital out > MiniDSP > MiniDSP analog out > A10

MiniDSP far more powerful than the Loki, you can do accurate room correction with it
 

radix

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
1,359
Likes
1,289
The 2x4hd with dirac is $200 more expansive . The base model can be upgraded by paying the license fee.

Oh my, yes you are right. I was thinking the DDRC-24 (which is the upgraded 2x4 HD). I'm sorry for that mistake.
 
OP
G

Gotbanjo

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2021
Messages
11
Likes
0
I did some reading on the minidsp. This piece of equipment is very interesting and complicated. I would might be getting in over my head. Maybe after more reading I gain comfort with setting it up and programmed. For now I’m going go the E30 Dac. Thanks everyone.
 

tvrgeek

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Messages
1,017
Likes
566
Location
North Carolinia
Do NOT expect to hear much difference with the new DAC. It will not solve any EQ issue.
FWIW, I had an E30 briefly. Unstable and had a huge spurious spike in the response. For a really really good cheap DAC, JDS or Schiit. Even the Apple Dongle. No ASIO of course. Cheapest ASIO DAC I would trust is a Focusrite Scarlett 2I2 V3. Everyone has their preferences. If you need MQA or DSD, that is a different matter.

All auto eq systems try too hard for a very unnatural flat response. Seems the folks at Dirac, RES, Audssey etc have never heard of Peter Walker.
 
Top Bottom