DAC vs EQ. Am I missing something?

[audioaudio]

Recently into hifi.

Streaming Tidal into a Wiim Pro Plus and Fosi 3V monoblocks to 0.7 Maggies.

I don't trust the reliability of the Fosi's and tested more premium equipment to hear if I was missing anything musically. I was able to test a Moon ACE, Moon 340i X, Peachtree Nova 300, and a NAD C 3050. I have enjoyed the quality of the gear. However musically I don't have a favorite. I prefer my Wiim EQ settings over any of the their DACs. I've listened via the Wiims optical out (and EQ off) to each to utilize their DACs, as well as using the Wiim's RCAs, bypassing their DACs and testing them all as just amplifiers.

Is this normal?
-It seems the market is flooded with DACs and while I do believe they have different sound characteristics, I don't see the point as long as someone is willing to use an EQ.
-My gut tells me I should be hearing a difference between the amplifiers - especially between the Fosi's and the 340i X. But I don't. After hours of testing, my EQ settings seem to work equally well on both amps. This is either a compliment to the Fosi's, an insult to the Moon, or an indication I'm lacking much knowledge.

I am comfortable with my current sound but is it possible to get a better sound with a more premium DAC/Streamer and an external EQ like the Schiit Lokius?
-Is it possible I have a bottleneck somewhere and I'm limiting the 340i X from playing at it's full potential? I have read that an amp shouldn't color the sound, and that's fine, but maybe my source is limiting the 340i X from outperforming the Fosi's? (note: the 340i X can play louder but I find with my EQ the lows, mids, and highs, control, soundstage, detail retrieval are all eerily similar for the price difference.

I'm asking these questions hear in an audio science forum as I think people may relate more to what I'm experiencing, instead of a hifi forum where people might think I'm trolling. I'm not. I'm genuinely trying to find out if I'm doing something wrong ,or is a Wiim Pro Plus and Fosi Mono setup really that good?

Thanks for any opinions and criticisms.

EDIT:
I did have my room analyzed and the maggies are really well positioned. This isn't a case of them being too close to a wall or anything like that.

 

[Mnyb]

EQ is important for room acoustic or headphone eq ( to compensate for their shortcomings )

And is magnitude more audible than most things in audio.

You should not expect properly designed electronics to sound much different if they’re up to driving your speakers or headphones as loud as you need . Neither DAC’s nor amplifiers .
Well made DAC’s simply don’t have a sounds signature. Amps can be a corner case if they have high output impedance load depending frequency response or simply lack power to do thier job .

Your ear/mind are sensitive to frequency response variations foremost then noise and then distortion .

There are may other qualities a piece of equipment can have if sound quality is solved, build quality , local support, good warranty features ( such as EQ ) .

IMO as I own a WiiM pro plus . A streamer DAC with EQ and room correction is automatically better than every other product that lack this feature regardless of price .
Only use audio equipment without EQ features if you can do it in software from your source 2c

And welcome to the forum.

I think you got things right not hearing much differences , to much marketing in audio trying to make you think everything matters .
Where in reality it’s much more situation and application dependent.

 

[DVDdoug]

EQ (obviously) makes a difference and different speakers/rooms/headphones make a difference.

It seems the market is flooded with DACs and while I do believe they have different sound characteristics

There are measurable differences but usually not audible differences (in a proper level matched, blind, ABX test).

The ONLY time I've heard a defect from a "DAC" it was a noisy soundcard that made noise in the speakers when the hard drive was accessed. I never heard anything wrong the DAC built-into the 1st CD player I bought almost 40 years ago.

-My gut tells me I should be hearing a difference between the amplifiers -

If there's a difference it's usually noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background) or if you overdrive an amplifier into clipping (distortion). See Audiophoolery.

I'm asking these questions hear in an audio science forum

You're in the right place! The "audiophile community" is dominated by nuts & nonsense! There is a fair amount of nonsense Y mythology in the pro audio world too, but they aren't as crazy as audiophiles.

 

[jcarys]

"is a Wiim Pro Plus and Fosi Mono setup really that good?"

Yes, they are really that good. You can reference Amir's reviews to show that both of them are very close to the top of their class.
You shouldn't really expect big differences between well engineered DACs and amps these days.

The reason there are tons of DACs and amps available is because each company exists to maximize their own profit - no matter what exists in the rest of the market.

 

[davmol]

Recently into hifi.

...tested more premium equipment to hear if I was missing anything musically.

I'm genuinely trying to find out if I'm doing something wrong ,or is a Wiim Pro Plus and Fosi Mono setup really that good?

You sound just like me a few months ago, recently into the hobby, more from a headphone perspective and then speakers. I was going down a bit of a rabbit hole. I started listening to my Wiim ultra, Topping D50III and Quedelix 5k more critically, and decided I couldn't tell and difference despite what everyone was telling me.

I went on to some hifi type forums and was told that I couldn't hear a difference because they all use the same chipset. So I asked what DAC would give me this amazing experience that they all describe using words like smooth, velvet, musicality, soundstage, holography etc etc. I was told I would need to experience something like an R2R DAC, or a discrete / FPGA like a Chord DAC. So I set about acquiring and listening to a range of DACs, using advice from this forum to try and reduce bias, and the result was that I still don't hear any difference, at all. I realise the next step is people telling me I didn't spend enough money because it's not just about the architecture, it's about the cost of said architecture, but I understand enough now to know that's bollocks.

So no you are not dreaming, your equipment is really good and if you like the sound great, and if you want to seek preferential changes or improvements then focus on the room, speakers / headphones, EQ etc.

Here is a link to my own rabbit hole:

Blind testing two DACs - Proper Process

Hi, I have a Topping D50 III DAC and have just ordered a used Fiio K11 R2R DAC. I have previously not heard a difference between DACs, in the form of my D50, a Qudelix 5k, the Wiim Ultra internal and a Geshelli J2 and am of the opinion that there is no audible difference if the DACs are well...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Roland68]

Recently into hifi.

Streaming Tidal into a Wiim Pro Plus and Fosi 3V monoblocks to 0.7 Maggies.

I don't trust the reliability of the Fosi's and tested more premium equipment to hear if I was missing anything musically. I was able to test a Moon ACE, Moon 340i X, Peachtree Nova 300, and a NAD C 3050. I have enjoyed the quality of the gear. However musically I don't have a favorite. I prefer my Wiim EQ settings over any of the their DACs. I've listened via the Wiims optical out (and EQ off) to each to utilize their DACs, as well as using the Wiim's RCAs, bypassing their DACs and testing them all as just amplifiers.

Is this normal?
-It seems the market is flooded with DACs and while I do believe they have different sound characteristics, I don't see the point as long as someone is willing to use an EQ.
-My gut tells me I should be hearing a difference between the amplifiers - especially between the Fosi's and the 340i X. But I don't. After hours of testing, my EQ settings seem to work equally well on both amps. This is either a compliment to the Fosi's, an insult to the Moon, or an indication I'm lacking much knowledge.

I am comfortable with my current sound but is it possible to get a better sound with a more premium DAC/Streamer and an external EQ like the Schiit Lokius?
-Is it possible I have a bottleneck somewhere and I'm limiting the 340i X from playing at it's full potential? I have read that an amp shouldn't color the sound, and that's fine, but maybe my source is limiting the 340i X from outperforming the Fosi's? (note: the 340i X can play louder but I find with my EQ the lows, mids, and highs, control, soundstage, detail retrieval are all eerily similar for the price difference.

I'm asking these questions hear in an audio science forum as I think people may relate more to what I'm experiencing, instead of a hifi forum where people might think I'm trolling. I'm not. I'm genuinely trying to find out if I'm doing something wrong ,or is a Wiim Pro Plus and Fosi Mono setup really that good?

Thanks for any opinions and criticisms.

EDIT:
I did have my room analyzed and the maggies are really well positioned. This isn't a case of them being too close to a wall or anything like that.

Three comments from me.
EQ and DACs have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
If you want to make a comparison, for example with the Wiim and integrated DACs, you have to turn the EQ off completely everywhere, otherwise you are only comparing EQ vs. no EQ.
EQ is always most usefully applied on the digital side, before the DAC.

 

[GXAlan]

EQ makes “first” order changes so they see big and noticeable. (speakers being the only bigger difference). The subtlies in DACs and amplifiers are “mostly” sighted bias, and potentially subtle non linearities like IMD and phase issues which might be real (based upon PK Metric) but these differences are super small. Last, the Magnepans need a lot of power if you are listening loudly but they are largely resistive loads so it works pretty well with many amps.