Most notably, for the R3, don’t listen on-axis, so do not toe the speakers in!
As for HF response otherwise, don’t underestimate the influence of how you hear HF when you change something elsewhere in the spectrum.
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Dac upgrade
- Thread starter erniek
- Start date
As for HF response otherwise, don’t underestimate the influence of how you hear HF when you change something elsewhere in the spectrum.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
Great point. @OP It sounds like you might have moved the R3s into a smaller room, or around the room they were in? In this case it's almost 100% likely that you are dealing with different room modes (variations in bass) than you were before, not just changes in treble.
I can say from experience that cleaning up the bass perceptually cleans up everything - I guess because of subtle masking effects. When you have +10dB more energy at 100hz resonating around the room it can be harder to hear small details elsewhere in the spectrum. Fixing that with room correction subjectively feels like cleaning the whole windshield, not just one spot.
I replaced all my DACs with the WiiM Ultra. Sounds great and makes it easier to manage everything. I have DACs from $100 - $2,000 including the DX3Pro+, I'm happy with the WiiM Ultra, I don't think I can tell any of my good DACs apart.
I use the DX3Pro+ on my desktop with my headphones, nice all in one solution.
I use the DX3Pro+ on my desktop with my headphones, nice all in one solution.
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kemmler3D
Master Contributor
Indeed, the difference between a good DAC and a great DAC is not like the difference between fancy wines. It's like the difference between water distilled 3 times and water distilled 4 times. They all have zero character, are not supposed to, and you already couldn't tell the difference between 1 and 2 distillations anyway.
Notice how the OP has gone silent? He or she are not likely interested in this type of advice. I'm going to guess that they want the silliness from over at head-fi repeated here. Thankfully that isn't often the case in this community.
They reacted just yesterday (so a few hours ago) with follow-up questions… we can’t expect people to respond within a few minutes. Give it a little time…
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- Thread Starter
- #47
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
Steven Holt
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To the OP : it sounds like you have excellent gear. I can only hope that you listen to our senior membership, they know what they're talking about when they tell you that a fancy DAC won't help you one bit. It will only be a wallet - emptying experience. Just thank God that you have what you have and ENJOY THE MUSIC!
My bad. I guess it would have been more accurate to note that the perponderance of activity seems to not be the O P. Perhaps that is not as accurate as I felt it is
Still, what's up OP? Are you learning anything or are you still bent on spending money in ways that cannot possibly make an audible difference?
drewdawg999
Active Member
I've gotten great performance out of my SMSL D-6, which is quite affordable. It has additional features such as balanced outputs and DSD Direct mode which is a feature on the AKM chip. That's if you're into DSD, it sounds very nice for that. It sounds great for redbook and BT as well. If you would like to spend more, the SMSL D400 Pro has a fancy chassis and uses the flagship AKM chip. I think it looks killer in silver.
Steven Holt
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Your DAC, or the Topping D10 Balanced (my DAC) is all the OP needs. That's not the problem. The problem is he's been listening to the likes of Darko, Guttenberg, Stereophile, and the rest of that lot. Since he did ask for help from our membership, there's still hope.
Mr Swing King
Active Member
Having been over on the ‘wild side’ some years ago I do understand where the OP is coming from. It’s a terribly confusing place to start looking at the hobby objectively from. I know I had a hard time coming to terms with amps and dacs being transparent, as well as the whole industry around the audiophile game basically aping the emperor’s new clothes.
Either you rip the nonsense away from your brain by way of blindtests or you scoff at science and believe your own dillusions. I sure had to be convinced over a number of times, mostly because of my own ego. It’s tough.
Human beings are easy to fool. It’s waaaaaaaay more difficult convincing them they’ve been fooled…most especially if their money and ego are on the line.
So yeah to the OP; take your time. As much as some in here can feel a bit too sure of themselves, they’re actually trying to help you out with things that do matter. Dacs really don’t once you pass a certain point, and with your Topping you’re already way beyond that.
Best of luck going forth
Either you rip the nonsense away from your brain by way of blindtests or you scoff at science and believe your own dillusions. I sure had to be convinced over a number of times, mostly because of my own ego. It’s tough.
Human beings are easy to fool. It’s waaaaaaaay more difficult convincing them they’ve been fooled…most especially if their money and ego are on the line.
So yeah to the OP; take your time. As much as some in here can feel a bit too sure of themselves, they’re actually trying to help you out with things that do matter. Dacs really don’t once you pass a certain point, and with your Topping you’re already way beyond that.
Best of luck going forth
- Thread Starter
- #54
This may be the best start as I have moved the speakers to a smaller (12 x 12) room. One reason for a new dac is that I would like streamer capabilities as well.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
The room definitely affects things a great deal, something to look into.
WiiM makes really nice streamers, affordable, and they have room correction capabilities built in, which as you know I think is a big deal.
I second the WiiM if you want streaming. I recently picked up the WiiM Ultra and I'm very pleased with it as all-in-one streamer / DAC / pre-amp and personally couldn't tell a difference between the internal WiiM DAC vs my Topping D50III, or Qudelix 5k (depsite so many reviews online saying to use an external DAC with it for "improved audio"). If I didn't need anything other than USB and Bluetooth inputs then the 5k is an awesome (and tiny) little DAC, particularly in respect of their Android app and PC browser interface, plus the PEQ with custom profiles is superb. Maybe I should've gone for their desktop offering but instead went for the Topping D50III, which is a great little DAC as well, if you need more inputs and a remote control (so can use as pre-amp direct into a power amp). Negatives of the D50III for me would be that the PEQ only applies to the USB input and the interface (Topping Tune) is a bit underwhelming / basic when compared with Qudelix (it's a new app for Topping so they have time to improve).
Worth noting that each have had their problems. The 5k is sensitive to the USB signal coming from the PC, choosing at random to throw out deafeningly loud static noise when connected to my Dell laptop, but no such problems with my Lenovo laptop. It was enough of a problem to make me buy the D50III, which has no such static issues, but does output some noise (only when USB is connected) that was clealy audible on my Yamaha AS500. I picked up an Aiyima 07 Max to see if it could "filter out" that noise and it did and so I returned my Yamaha amp. I then decided to pick up the WiiM Ultra as an all-in-one solution (for speaker use, keeping D50 for headphone use), and, wouldn't you know it, the Aiyima's power supply was generating electrical interference that was audible through the WiiM's phono stage. It was not audible on my other 2 phono stages via WiiM line-in, so seems likely the WiiM phono stage is overly sensitive / not adequately shielded.
Sorry for length post but I think it's worth stating because even though the DACs themselves sound the same, they all have issues that may or may not affect your setup, even if highly rated here on ASR reviews, so buy from somewhere that has a no quibble return policy (fyi, I replaced the Aiyima and now everything is working in harmony, bliss!).
Worth noting that each have had their problems. The 5k is sensitive to the USB signal coming from the PC, choosing at random to throw out deafeningly loud static noise when connected to my Dell laptop, but no such problems with my Lenovo laptop. It was enough of a problem to make me buy the D50III, which has no such static issues, but does output some noise (only when USB is connected) that was clealy audible on my Yamaha AS500. I picked up an Aiyima 07 Max to see if it could "filter out" that noise and it did and so I returned my Yamaha amp. I then decided to pick up the WiiM Ultra as an all-in-one solution (for speaker use, keeping D50 for headphone use), and, wouldn't you know it, the Aiyima's power supply was generating electrical interference that was audible through the WiiM's phono stage. It was not audible on my other 2 phono stages via WiiM line-in, so seems likely the WiiM phono stage is overly sensitive / not adequately shielded.
Sorry for length post but I think it's worth stating because even though the DACs themselves sound the same, they all have issues that may or may not affect your setup, even if highly rated here on ASR reviews, so buy from somewhere that has a no quibble return policy (fyi, I replaced the Aiyima and now everything is working in harmony, bliss!).
Good choice. Your post got bumped, so I just read through it.
1) new DACs are coming out all the time time because there is always someone buying their first new DAC. If you don’t have a DAC and you are buying one, you will want to consider which one measures the best *since it doesn’t cost extra to get a high performance one*
2) New DACs are also supported by consumption culture, social signaling/extended self, and lipstick effect.
Consumption culture is something all of us are guilty of. End game often reflects a state of gear, when it should represent a state of mind.
Social signaling in this case isn’t to say that you are wealthy, but that you have bragging rights on the best measuring gear. Even if you don’t care what others think, the concept of Extended Self means that our possessions contribute and reflect our identities. We want to own the best because that is a reflection of our passion for having the best.
Lipstick effect is that when the economy is bad, lipstick sales increase because people are substituting expensive products for less expensive products as a way to treat oneself. If you want a nice new shiny thing, it’s a lot easier to buy a new DAC than a new listening room (biggest contribution to sound) or a new set of speakers.
3) Improved ergonomics, connectivity, features.
You struck gold with the WiiM Ultra. The PC does a great job with audio, but ergonomics aren’t great for music listening in my opinion. Connectivity includes streaming services but having convenient XLR out or HDMI ARC. Features are things like integrating PEQ into a DAC, etc.
1) new DACs are coming out all the time time because there is always someone buying their first new DAC. If you don’t have a DAC and you are buying one, you will want to consider which one measures the best *since it doesn’t cost extra to get a high performance one*
2) New DACs are also supported by consumption culture, social signaling/extended self, and lipstick effect.
Consumption culture is something all of us are guilty of. End game often reflects a state of gear, when it should represent a state of mind.
Social signaling in this case isn’t to say that you are wealthy, but that you have bragging rights on the best measuring gear. Even if you don’t care what others think, the concept of Extended Self means that our possessions contribute and reflect our identities. We want to own the best because that is a reflection of our passion for having the best.
Lipstick effect is that when the economy is bad, lipstick sales increase because people are substituting expensive products for less expensive products as a way to treat oneself. If you want a nice new shiny thing, it’s a lot easier to buy a new DAC than a new listening room (biggest contribution to sound) or a new set of speakers.
3) Improved ergonomics, connectivity, features.
You struck gold with the WiiM Ultra. The PC does a great job with audio, but ergonomics aren’t great for music listening in my opinion. Connectivity includes streaming services but having convenient XLR out or HDMI ARC. Features are things like integrating PEQ into a DAC, etc.
Are you familiar with how the market economy works?
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