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Dac upgrade

Okay. Thanks for all the input, I do wonder how much more it would take to make my PC based system move toward what is termed audiophile. I have had to downsize my main system to a PC desktop system and even though some have said to upgrade speakers (which I really like), but what I currently have is quite good already. One thing that I have noticed with the PC digital setup is that is does not stay even top to bottom like my main system did. (HF's mostly) Now being that digital is the defacto choice these days I am seeking to find a hopefully closer audiophile sound with it that I can settle into that satisfies what I already have attained previously.
 
erniek said:
I did receive my new Buckeye amp today and will be evaluating it in the next few weeks with the DX3Pro.
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Since you are using a PC you can easily apply EQ to implement room correction, the standard recommendation around here (and one that I agree with) is to get a UMIK-1, download REW (free) and use EQAPO to implement a room correction curve on the PC.

I will say, what is "audiophile" and not "audiophile" is not the best question you can ask. An audiophile is just someone who is interested in good sound, but it doesn't mean they actually have good equipment or spend their money wisely. ;)

Better to consider what you like about your system now, and specifically what you'd like to improve.

You mentioned variations in the upper frequencies. Unwanted variation in the treble is mostly only fixed in 2 ways - upgrade your speakers and/or add room treatments. To a limited extent EQ can help with this too, but it's easy to overdo it. If you like your speakers and don't want to upgrade, I recommend room treatments.
 
erniek said:
I have had to downsize my main system to a PC desktop system
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I'm guessing different speakers to what you had before Even if the same speakers, they are certainly in a different physical space. I'd be fairly confident any difference you are hearing coming from the speakers and how they are interacting with the environment.

Particularly in a desktop setup the desktop can act as a sound board and dramatically mess up the sound field. If the speakers are on the desk, that is the first thing to change. Get them on stands - preferably to either side of the desk, rather than stands-on-the-desk. Do as much as you can to tame reflections.

Also consider room eq.
 
erniek said:
I already have KEF R3's and LS50's. A kind of question for me is if upgrading the dac isn't an improvement why do we such a dizzying array of different dacs to choose from?
I have already owned the OPPO dac and the DX3pro (though very good) did not measure up to me soundwise to the OPPO. This could change with the upcoming amp so I will see, also the dx3pro is 5 or so years old.
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Market forces, nothing else.
 
antcollinet said:
It is possible to buy DACS that have audible noise or distortion. Walmart or Target house brand stuff might fall into this category - or they might not. Without measurements we can't know. A small number of dacs measured here have been fairly bad. Some of those have been very expensive.

But your topping DAC does not - it has been measured, and is audibly perfect. Upgrade by all means for the reasons others have stated, features, aesthetics, because your've always lusted over a particular brand, brand reputation, after sales support... and so on.

But don't do it thinking you are going to get better sound.
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To add to that:
Even if you truly believe and could hear a better sound, after a few months, you wonder if it was worth it, since it was neither here nor there.
I personally am quite fond of Chord Mojos and Hugo2. But as portables!
For desktop , they are very good too, but I can not justify Hugo2's price, unless, like me, you could find a pristine one for a third of the price.
And I believe I can hear a difference between my Hugo2 and my DX7 pro. But you know what? The DX7 remains permanently connected to my amps, and the Hugo2 remains with my headphone.
So its just horses for courses.
Take it from me, I have both. I am not talking numbers and graphs. I have first hand experience.
We are trying to do you a favour.
 
Since so many of us listen with our eyes without realising it, if a change of dac suits the eyes and touch better, it'll probably sound better too (to our brains if not in actuality). Most audiophiles have little to no understanding (I didn't, although I'd heard the same system/room appear to sound different depending on my mood).

So, what's a nice versatile dac for $500 for the OP to look at and use?
 
erniek said:
Okay. Thanks for all the input, I do wonder how much more it would take to make my PC based system move toward what is termed audiophile. I have had to downsize my main system to a PC desktop system and even though some have said to upgrade speakers (which I really like), but what I currently have is quite good already. One thing that I have noticed with the PC digital setup is that is does not stay even top to bottom like my main system did. (HF's mostly) Now being that digital is the defacto choice these days I am seeking to find a hopefully closer audiophile sound with it that I can settle into that satisfies what I already have attained previously.
Click to expand...
Speakers do sound different. Digital components all sound the same. There has never been a verified double blind test that showed any sound differences between components other than speakers. Its a religion not Science
 
erniek said:
Okay. Thanks for all the input, I do wonder how much more it would take to make my PC based system move toward what is termed audiophile. I have had to downsize my main system to a PC desktop system and even though some have said to upgrade speakers (which I really like), but what I currently have is quite good already. One thing that I have noticed with the PC digital setup is that is does not stay even top to bottom like my main system did. (HF's mostly) Now being that digital is the defacto choice these days I am seeking to find a hopefully closer audiophile sound with it that I can settle into that satisfies what I already have attained previously.
Click to expand...
For a desktop setup I'd look at some good active speakers. Genelec or Neumann speakers would bring your setup to the next level. Of course you also need to add a subwoofer, preferably two to deal with roommodes better. Also add some kind of room correction. Genelec and Neumann have their own solutions, but a MiniDSP product could do the same. Those are the steps to take to get the absolute state of the art.

But what do you mean by not even top to bottom?
 
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Speakers are on stands, heavy ones. Top end is not great and I am convinced that room correction will help a lot with this. I do have a REL T7 sub to integrate with the R3's, I removed the LS50's because I never thought they sounded good with a sub.
Another thought that has occurred to me is that I wonder if I should not be using the PC at all and add in a streaming device to connect everything.
Thanks again for all the advice. Any input on where I (a total newbie on this) might get a tutorial of sorts for doing room correction?
 
erniek said:
If upgrading does not produce any better sound then why do we not all buy Walmart or Target house brand stuff and be done with it. :)
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Once Walmart and Target start selling gear that is acoustically transparent then, sure, that's an option.
 
erniek said:
Another thought that has occurred to me is that I wonder if I should not be using the PC at all and add in a streaming device to connect everything.
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What's the reasoning for this? Not that either option is bad, but it would help to understand your needs better, so that a valid conclusion can be made.
erniek said:
Thanks again for all the advice. Any input on where I (a total newbie on this) might get a tutorial of sorts for doing room correction?
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erniek said:
Also I only use Linux for computing.
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This makes it a bit more difficult, but not impractical. The tool of choice here is probably CamilaDSP, and some web interface if you want to make it easier for yourself. There are other options for Linux as well, but complexity will grow fast. You'll also need a microphone to measure what the sound does in your room. From there you can tweak the room response to your liking. Another tool that you cannot do without is REW. It will help you visualize what is going on, and can also help you create the correction filters. As for guides, there are plenty around. It's best to study a few of them, see which one fits your current skill level, and go from there.

Note that some streamers also provide room correction features and devices like the ones from MiniDSP. Some also feature a sub-output, giving you much better control for the integration of your sub.
 
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Audio out of a PC is not a clean as that out of a good streamer?
 
erniek said:
Audio out of a PC is not a clean as that out of a good streamer?
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Doesn't matter as long as you don't have any ground loops. And if you do, you'll know, the hum and/or noise is quite noticeable.
 
Even USB is perfectly fine. Just like many others he seems to be focused on aspects of his setup that don't really matter. 99% is just speakers and setup. Something like Neumann KH150 speakers will really be the thing that pushes your setup up a notch.
 
erniek said:
Top end is not great and I am convinced that room correction will help a lot with this.
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Room correction only works well for low frequencies, or wide tonal imbalances in the upper frequencies. The reason for this is that standing waves / reflections that mess up the frequency response in the treble are physically quite small.

So if you correct a dip here, 5 inches away it becomes a peak. If you move your head 5 inches the original peak is now twice as bad as it used to be, due to the correction.

In the low frequencies, they behave differently because of the Shroeder frequency (not sure I can explain this properly) and they are also physically much larger, on the scale of feet.

If you want to improve the treble response of your speakers (which should be good with the R3) your best options are moving the speakers around to avoid interferences, and/or adding room treatments.
erniek said:
Any input on where I (a total newbie on this) might get a tutorial of sorts for doing room correction?
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There's this https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...om-measurement-tutorial-for-dummies-part-1.4/ and also this https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...om-measurement-tutorial-for-dummies-part-2.5/ and this too: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/rpi-camilladsp-tutorial.29656/
 
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