• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

DAC under 300 EUR

OP
D

dannyarc

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2019
Messages
16
Likes
0
He reviewed S2D with his old measurement set-up. The new dashboard, is made with total new system. That is why

(I am seeing the like from Amir) Does this mean that SINAD value has a negligible importance and it won't be calculated in the future?
Should I take this figure in great or relative account?
 

Veri

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
9,596
Likes
12,036
(I am seeing the like from Amir) Does this mean that SINAD value has a negligible importance and it won't be calculated in the future?
Should I take this figure in great or relative account?
Relative account. It's still an interesting figure, but since he no longer has the device on hand you will have to make do with the old dashboard.. But the S2D is a very good device, if you are tempted in buying one, I'd say pull the trigger :) recommended to order from a marketplace that accept returns just in case you don't think it makes for a big enough improvement.
 
Last edited:

daftcombo

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
3,687
Likes
4,068
Hi there everybody,
I am searching for a DAC with SP/DIF input and a SABRE decoder (I believe I dislike the warmer AKM sound) under 300 euro.
D

Hi,

I don't understand that sentence. Why would an AKM-based DAC have a "warmer" sound than a SABRE-based DAC, as long as they both measure well with a flat frequency response?

Isn't the "sound of chip" a legend?
 

Veri

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
9,596
Likes
12,036
as long as they both measure well with a flat frequency response?

Well it's not look Amir looks at frequency response of devices and calls it a day. We look at all performance, noise and distortion characteristics.

That is not to say that Sabre or AKM have their own 'house' sound. Hasn't been proven yet at all, either chip can sound 'harsh'(distorted) or 'warm'(rolled-off) depending on how much they botched the design.

Two highly performing transparent devices of any dac chip should sound 99.9% the same... which a volume-controlled blind test would prove, time after time after time. But of course the hi-fi crowd has never accepted this, since why would anyone buy more expensive devices then, when a Khadas tone board hits the top-tier at $99....

Others might simply be supportive of AKM simply because it is a Japanese boutique brand ;) not that it is 'Japanese-sounding' though (lol)
 

daftcombo

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
3,687
Likes
4,068
That is not to say that Sabre or AKM have their own 'house' sound. Hasn't been proven yet at all, either chip can sound 'harsh'(distorted) or 'warm'(rolled-off) depending on how much they botched the design.
(lol)

I agree that "warm" seems to be commonly used to mean "rolled-off".

But are you sure that "harsh" is used to mean "distorted"? The vinyl sound isn't harsh to my ears, but it is very distorded. CDs are more often said to sound harsh, and I don't see distortion to have something to do with that. Just asking.
 

Veri

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
9,596
Likes
12,036
I agree that "warm" seems to be commonly used to mean "rolled-off".

But are you sure that "harsh" is used to mean "distorted"? The vinyl sound isn't harsh to my ears, but it is very distorded. CDs are more often said to sound harsh, and I don't see distortion to have something to do with that. Just asking.
Depends of course. More like it's "my" interpretation but when stuff starts to sound distorted (note there's several different kinds of distortion), it tends to start to quickly sound fatiguing for me, although it can sound "interesting" or even "fun" at first..
 

M00ndancer

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
719
Likes
728
Location
Sweden
Two highly performing transparent devices of any dac chip should sound 99.9% the same... which a volume-controlled blind test would prove, time after time after time. But of course the hi-fi crowd has never accepted this, since why would anyone buy more expensive devices then, when a Khadas tone board hits the top-tier at $99....
That's why I got my amp/dac for the features and price, not the transparency or lack there of. (I should send it to Amir for measuremens, but I suspect that it would fall in the forth and worst group, since it's really old and traditional tech)
 
OP
D

dannyarc

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2019
Messages
16
Likes
0
Hi,

I don't understand that sentence. Why would an AKM-based DAC have a "warmer" sound than a SABRE-based DAC, as long as they both measure well with a flat frequency response?

Isn't the "sound of chip" a legend?

I am not an audio scientist nor expert. I do not think to be either an audiophile.
I do not understand curves in the graphics.
In personal experience, with a DAC based on AK4399 and other AKM op-amps, I heard something I cannot explain better than a warm, smooth presentation, instead o a detailed, clinic one, that could be the result of the implementation.

However, it is the same AKM that talks about velvet sound:
https://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4490EQ
https://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/featured/velvetsound/

And there are comments from people like:
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/akms-velvet-sound.2356/

You can say that there is no hard evidence but, perhaps, there can be something more in the listening.
Or it is completely wrong?
Good measurement figures are exactly good listening?
Or, put in another way, same figures for two devices mean that they sound the same way?
 

Krunok

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Messages
4,600
Likes
3,065
Location
Zg, Cro
Good measurement figures are exactly good listening?
Or, put in another way, same figures for two devices mean that they sound the same way?

With electronic components that's certainly true.
 
Last edited:

Veri

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
9,596
Likes
12,036
I am not an audio scientist nor expert. I do not think to be either an audiophile.
I do not understand curves in the graphics.
In personal experience, with a DAC based on AK4399 and other AKM op-amps, I heard something I cannot explain better than a warm, smooth presentation, instead o a detailed, clinic one, that could be the result of the implementation.

However, it is the same AKM that talks about velvet sound:
https://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4490EQ
https://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/featured/velvetsound/

And there are comments from people like:
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/akms-velvet-sound.2356/

You can say that there is no hard evidence but, perhaps, there can be something more in the listening.
Or it is completely wrong?
Good measurement figures are exactly good listening?
Or, put in another way, same figures for two devices mean that they sound the same way?

OK, see, the AK4493 (in DX3 Pro) does not sound 'warm' whatsoever. Does that mean they changed the velvet sound thing, or that in the end it is really just the implementation of parts and output stage around the chip that truly determines its performance and sound?

The whole brand == so-and-so sounding seems very fake to me.
 

Tene

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
29
Likes
40
As others stated I'm pretty sure if people were to do double-blind tests between a good implementation of Sabre or a good implementation of AKM they wouldn't be able to pick a difference. It's more about your subconscious making you think they have to sound warmer that'll make them sound warmer. The ADI-2 DAC doesn't sound warm by any stretch even though it's based on a 4490.
 
Top Bottom