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ZolaIII

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You tried volume matched, double blind testing on them yet ?
Which volume matching? You put in warmer OP amp in & it needs higher gain to sound identically loud as colder brighter one you change the line & again everything changes. That's duble blind & highly subjective.
 

maxxevv

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Which volume matching? You put in warmer OP amp in & it needs higher gain to sound identically loud as colder brighter one you change the line & again everything changes. That's duble blind & highly subjective.

As you said yourself : "subjective".

Its not an objective test / comparison any more.
 

vitalii427

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At apsolutly same volume.
Which apsolutly isn't true.
First off all there are six DAC architectures of which we can say three are in use in current commercial designs. Of course they give different results. Future more how lines are attended and grounded in DAC chip design also influence results for instance on ESS DAC's the DSD line is done much better than PCM one's & those are simple DSD designs. AKM's are other way around, PCM line is the main, DSD is (whose converted to it) its older more complex design... Then there's clocking (jitter), noise Isolating (from all sources) & cetera and cetera. Absolute volume matching with different amp's or OP amp's is a fairy tail. Each amp has it's own ideal operating range (usually between 33% power lv to 67% where distortion is rather small & its getting enough power to drive it fully). Even one small design detail can change everything. Given all into consideration theres apsolutly no two DAC's that will sound the same, similar perhaps, even more so for generic ones but not the same.
Oh sure! Then goes audiophile capacitors, fuses, tubes, battery power supplies, connectors, interconnect wires, USB wires, power cords and other snake oil which at best do nothing and sometimes making things much worse. And most important thing is golden ears that can hear things that cannot be measured even with the best equipment.

Sorry but that is not that type of forum.
 

vitalii427

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What're the conditions of volume matching? Please explain to me, amateur. o_O thank a lot.
With DACs volume matching is pretty simple. You just need a decent digital multi-meter. You should use some test tone and match output voltage of DACs with precision at least 5%, better 1-2%. I use 1 kHz sine with TrueRMS DMM. With cheap DMM you better use 100-250hz sine tone.

Volume matching requirement is based on psychoacoustics theory that humans really bad at perceiving small volume difference. We usually perceive louder as better.

EDIT: found this old thread on this topic: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/volume-matching-jnd.219/

EDIT2: if DACs don't have built-in volume control feel free to use software volume
 
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ZolaIII

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Oh sure! Then goes audiophile capacitors, fuses, tubes, battery power supplies, connectors, interconnect wires, USB wires, power cords and other snake oil which at best do nothing and sometimes making things much worse. And most important thing is golden ears that can hear things that cannot be measured even with the best equipment.

Sorry but that is not that type of forum.
No it's just trow it all in in a washing machine and it will all come out clean and dandy.
Even same design copies can turn out to be very different & usually in a bad way. Recent example would be that fake D10 (AD10). Changing digital filter changes things a lot, sure for pure measuring purpose you will want to use sharp fast rolloff filter but you certainly won't want to listen to it like that. Connectors do make difference & are prime example of how attending & grounding makes difference thats why XLR is favorite hire. I see connectors as unfotunete thing that is unfortunately necessary so while I approve using of super conducting materials for those I don't have such opinion regarding cables. For me there are only two tipes of cables the good & bad ones. I prefer OFC thick properly shield (copper) not stiff in good quality TPU shirt ones, which are almost impossible to find this day's but plenty of snake oil one's to choose. Every one has different hearing, I am in 40's and I still hear from 17 to 17000 Hz, playing with tone generator and general practice do help there.

Of course you are free to express your own opinion & more so if you have one.
 

vitalii427

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No it's just trow it all in in a washing machine and it will all come out clean and dandy.
Even same design copies can turn out to be very different & usually in a bad way. Recent example would be that fake D10 (AD10). Changing digital filter changes things a lot, sure for pure measuring purpose you will want to use sharp fast rolloff filter but you certainly won't want to listen to it like that. Connectors do make difference & are prime example of how attending & grounding makes difference thats why XLR is favorite hire. I see connectors as unfotunete thing that is unfortunately necessary so while I approve using of super conducting materials for those I don't have such opinion regarding cables. For me there are only two tipes of cables the good & bad ones. I prefer OFC thick properly shield (copper) not stiff in good quality TPU shirt ones, which are almost impossible to find this day's but plenty of snake oil one's to choose. Every one has different hearing, I am in 40's and I still hear from 17 to 17000 Hz, playing with tone generator and general practice do help there.

Of course you are free to express your own opinion & more so if you have one.
Wow! So you say you can hear difference in digital filters. Can you share ABX test report?
 

ZolaIII

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Wow! So you say you can hear difference in digital filters. Can you share ABX test report?
Nope, don't have a right ADC to record it. I certainly hear it in riffs, cimbals, timbre (that's where good paper cones shine) & I hear 17 Hz (as a hum) only on headphones/earphones that can go that low (fortunately have a great one's for that).
 

ZolaIII

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The virus dies in 12h (max).
Well great if that's really the case. Can you confirm that Corona-virus dies in 12h without host? For instance Antrax in cocoon form can survive for very, very long time. Anyway I doubt it can survive super slow shipping from Ali.
 

vitalii427

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Nope, don't have a right ADC to record it. I certainly hear it in riffs, cimbals, timbre (that's where good paper cones shine) & I hear 17 Hz (as a hum) only on headphones/earphones that can go that low (fortunately have a great one's for that).
You don’t need ADC. Try software filters in SoX resampler for example.

About 17hz. It is possible that you hear harmonics and not the main tone. But I think this is off topic.
 

ZolaIII

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You don’t need ADC. Try software filters in SoX resampler for example.

About 17hz. It is possible that you hear harmonics and not the main tone. But I think this is off topic.
Yes, yes I use it but what do you want. Shine plot after applying it? Nothing till you can actually hear it for which I would have to record it & recommend with what to listen to it.

Yes we went for of topic (sorry everyone).
 

vitalii427

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Yes, yes I use it but what do you want. Shine plot after applying it? Nothing till you can actually hear it for which I would have to record it & recommend with what to listen to it.

Yes we went for of topic (sorry everyone).
You can take any hi-res file, downsample/upsample it with some filter. Make few versions with different filters. Do ABX and then post reports with the files here or make a new thread. This forum is about audio science and you have a chance to bring us at least some scientific proofs of your words.
 

ZolaIII

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You can take any hi-res file, downsample/upsample it with some filter. Make few versions with different filters. Do ABX and then post reports with the files here or make a new thread. This forum is about audio science and you have a chance to bring us at least some scientific proofs of your words.
One day when you will be able to understand what scientific method is perhaps then you would understand what science is. Even if I had a really great ADC to record the DAC with which I can hear difference the result would still be compromised with different analogue listening device's. Prof of what? Plenty of Amir's measures to confirm that difference is there, if you can't hear it well body I have news for you. Chances are that you never will.
 

vitalii427

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One day when you will be able to understand what scientific method is perhaps then you would understand what science is. Even if I had a really great ADC to record the DAC with which I can hear difference the result would still be compromised with different analogue listening device's. Prof of what? Plenty of Amir's measures to confirm that difference is there, if you can't hear it well body I have news for you. Chances are that you never will.
It seems you didn’t even understand what I’m saying so please don’t try to teach me what science is.

EDIT: You don’t need an ADC to test audibility of different digital filters. You just trying to expose your subjective and highly doubtful opinion by the standards of this forum as a fact without providing any evidence
 
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ZolaIII

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It seems you didn’t even understand what I’m saying so please don’t try to teach me what science is.
Of course I won't. Plenty of such on my everyday job & I don't even try with them anymore. I am profesor of methodology among other things (philosophy, sociology, logic...). I am not sure even you can understand yourself but I am sure you don't understand me. Let's call this discussion off for the sake of everyone.

Edit:
If the difference with an use of A, B,... Filter (possibly with an graph of filter, used equipment & description of environment all documented with the work) whose observed as auditable (or not) from random subjects X, W, Z with large enough number of subjects which participated in experiment which whose conducted in controlled environment (same equipment, same setup...) using given test & it's methodology, conducted by neutral & objective staff, only then with certain certainty (procentual) can confirm or reject premises (hypothesis) given as the outlines as the reasons for conducting this work. Such as; whose it auditable to any of the subjects of the experiment, to how much (%)... & to try to future more examine why so (with questionnaire formed by new hypothesis) & cetera & cetera. That's how scientific work should be conducted. With out any of elements precisised hire it wouldn't be that. Meaning even if recorded with ADC or true microphone (which would be very hard to do) it couldn't qualify as scientific work or an experiment.
 
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vitalii427

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Of course I won't. Plenty of such on my everyday job & I don't even try with them anymore. I am profesor of methodology among other things (philosophy, sociology, logic...). I am not sure even you can understand yourself but I am sure you don't understand me. Let's call this discussion off for the sake of everyone.
Oh sure! I’ve thought you just a random schoolboy. So I take my words back. I can’t argue with professor.

Go have fun with someone else, professor
 

DUKE-DUKE

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Wow, it is interesting DAC. I think its sound is better than D30 but i don’t know it is better than D50. What is characteristic sound of ak4493?



I have been using the tenth Sanskrit edition with AK4490 on my desk every day, and using a 5V 2 AMP plug with it, attached to an SMSL amplifier
SMSL SA-98E 2x160W (THE SYNERGY IS VERY IMPORTANT) together with my old three-way Technics boxes, I can say today that the sound is clean, of course, if you want more warmth you can use an FX-Audio TUBE valve peamplifier -03 that gives you that warmth for 40 dollars (I have tried several valves but the ones I like the most are the ones that it comes from, the 6J1). Regarding the update of the sankrito 10 to the AK4493 chip, I am sure that the sound quality can improve somewhat, although I am also sure that the difference would be imperceptible to me, perhaps very very trained ears will notice differences in this regard. In my opinion of AFITIZED, for 100 dollars the Sanskito 10 is unrivaled in quality / price. Greetings.
 
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