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DAC types and their sonic signature

solderdude

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Is that possible?

After thinking about it I guess the answer is no.

@SIY you are right it.... is like feeding a troll... In his case I am not convinced it is pure trolling (looks like it) but rather a complete lack of understanding and unwillingness to learn (as he knows better).... could well be trolling.

His 68, sometimes very lengthy, PM's to me are concerning, hilarious, bonkers, completely of topic, largely wrong/incorrect and sometimes darn right insulting towards me or other ASR members.. I don't mind taking flak myself as it shows his ignorance.
I always kindly replied to him and explained the errors of his thinking and ways.

You're right though ..from this point on I should simply not reply to him anymore ...
I will miss looking for appropriate GIF's though... I almost started to run out of them anyway.
 
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Blumlein 88

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After thinking about it I guess the answer is no.

@SIY you are right it.... is like feeding a troll... In his case I am not convinced it is pure trolling (looks like it) but rather a complete lack of understanding and unwillingness to learn (as he knows better).... could well be trolling.

His 68, sometimes very lengthy, PM's to me are concerning, hilarious, bonkers, completely of topic, largely wrong/incorrect and sometimes darn right insulting towards me or other ASR members.. I don't mind taking flak myself as it shows his ignorance.
I always kindly replied to him and explained the errors of his thinking and ways.

From this point on I will not reply to him anymore ... I will miss looking for appropriate GIF's though... I almost started to run out of them anyway.
The GIF's you came up with are what made me not put him on ignore. I was always waiting for the 'next episode'. :)
 

solderdude

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Tomorrow the saga continues I am afraid (almost like a good soap, wait that is an oxymoron) but without replies and gifs from me though (have to constrain myself....have to constrain myself... have to constrain myself... have to
 

Bliman

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After thinking about it I guess the answer is no.

@SIY you are right it.... is like feeding a troll... In his case I am not convinced it is pure trolling (looks like it) but rather a complete lack of understanding and unwillingness to learn (as he knows better).... could well be trolling.

His 68, sometimes very lengthy, PM's to me are concerning, hilarious, bonkers, completely of topic, largely wrong/incorrect and sometimes darn right insulting towards me or other ASR members.. I don't mind taking flak myself as it shows his ignorance.
I always kindly replied to him and explained the errors of his thinking and ways.

You're right though ..from this point on I should simply not reply to him anymore ...
I will miss looking for appropriate GIF's though... I almost started to run out of them anyway.
A bit off topic but are you the guy behind DIY audio heaven?
 

solderdude

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yes
 

Blumlein 88

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Tomorrow the saga continues I am afraid (almost like a good soap, wait that is an oxymoron) but without replies and gifs from me though (have to constrain myself....have to constrain myself... have to constrain myself... have to
No, actually, you don't have to constrain yourself. You need to deal with reality as it is, not as you wish it were. ;)
 

solderdude

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Now you've done it ... :eek:

edit: Got a PM with some more insults (directed to me and other locals).
 
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Thomas savage

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Now you've done it ... :eek:

edit: Got a PM with some more insults (directed to me and other locals).
That's unacceptable, though not public our PM or conversation system is not to be abused in this way.

Such abuse if bought to my attention will be treated as though it was a public post . It's up to you if you wish to invite me to said exchange.
 

solderdude

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Thanks ...

Nah.. it was just Zalive and think I know where it came from (me not 'believing' him)
I could have just ignored it and not reply.
At first all was very friendly and civil in his replies and got to understand more where he came from and what his depth of knowledge is and how he got his 'info'.
I actually enjoyed conversing with him.

It was only the latest posts where he started regurgitating the same crap again (as he did here) and felt his, to him very valid, opinion wasn't accepted that some words became ... well ... less civilized.

I don't think he is a bad egg actually. He just has a warped way of thinking about how audio (or should I say electronics) 'works' and even misinterprets something as basic as an actual waveform.

The 'thrashing' of me I don't mind as I can defend myself, that of others is what is bothering to me.

Anyway I think he is just defending his 'religion' and hates it when some 'ignorant and misguided technical numbnuts' (my words) disagree with the 'real technical geniuses' he knows, and I think misinterprets as well.

When I would have met him in person I would have simply listened to his thesis and would not have bothered to engage him.
That's what I do on hifi shows etc... let them be. It always gets 'ugly' when one doesn't.

It is another thing if someone openly voices incorrect and not accurate nonsense to educate (unsuspecting) not technically avid readers.

He is on 'mental ignore' for me now and did not (could not possibly either) insult me as what he said is well ... nonsense.
Again .. I think he means well and has a big passion for music and reproduction.
 
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Blumlein 88

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That's unacceptable, though not public our PM or conversation system is not to be abused in this way.

Such abuse if bought to my attention will be treated as though it was a public post . It's up to you if you wish to invite me to said exchange.
I give a big thumbs down on this. If he is being abusive even in private, and has shown nothing other than contempt, then boot him off. We don't need his kind. If Solderdude says its insults then good enough for me. Maybe Solderdude can send you a conversation of his insults.

Besides, he'll feel so good we booted him off. It will confirm his righteousness. It is what he angling to get in the end.
 

patient_ot

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Here's a new one for you:

A claim that Delta-Sigma DACs "add" something to the music (particularly vocals) that an R2R DAC doesn't.

With the delta sigma dacs I heard, voices from a cd are more rendered like they would sound when a real voice would be amplified through an amplifier, there is something that's added to the voice. Well it's the best way I can explain this difference between both. With the Ares, that amplification 'effect' is taken away, rendering the voice more natural and dry. It is rather obvious when switching instantly from one dac to the other to my ears. The "magic sauce" in this case was obviously added with the Delta Sigma design and it, also rather obvious, isn't all that "magic", it's just a "sauce" that I don't happen to like !
 

gvl

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^^^ It is more likely that an R2R DAC adds something than a DS does. I have experienced the above with discrete R2R DACs, less so with chip R2R DACs. Probably has to do with higher harmonic distortion content.
 

solderdude

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Here's a new one for you:

A claim that Delta-Sigma DACs "add" something to the music (particularly vocals) that an R2R DAC doesn't.

With the delta sigma dacs I heard, voices from a cd are more rendered like they would sound when a real voice would be amplified through an amplifier, there is something that's added to the voice. Well it's the best way I can explain this difference between both. With the Ares, that amplification 'effect' is taken away, rendering the voice more natural and dry. It is rather obvious when switching instantly from one dac to the other to my ears. The "magic sauce" in this case was obviously added with the Delta Sigma design and it, also rather obvious, isn't all that "magic", it's just a "sauce" that I don't happen to like !

It's one thing to make such a claim. It's another thing to substantiate that claim in a properly controled blind test.
It is VERY easy to hear differences when one knows which DAC is playing.
 

BDWoody

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Here's a new one for you:

A claim that Delta-Sigma DACs "add" something to the music (particularly vocals) that an R2R DAC doesn't.

That's not really new...that's pretty much what they all claim in one way or another. As long as it isn't deemed higher fidelity, have at it.

Nobody is challenging preferences, simply methodology needed if one wants to make meaningful comparisons that won't be immediately dismissed. Most comparisons seem to encourage bias rather than try to control for it to any degree.
 

Bliman

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It's one thing to make such a claim. It's another thing to substantiate that claim in a properly controled blind test.
It is VERY easy to hear differences when one knows which DAC is playing.
I am trying to make sense of it all. I don't get it. I certainly don't want to start a rivalry or something. But sometimes I look at Super best audio friends and they also do measurements and such. And to my surprise, they also do blind tests. And they say it is pretty easy to hear the differences in dacs.
I am in a position where I want to choose a Dac/preamp maybe streamer. Now the RME Dac makes sense but it isn't the best in measurements. I keep reading that it misses depth. But I am in no position to blind test. Now I really don't know why these people would lie. Many speak lyrically about schiit there and here they are destroyed. It all is so confusing to me.
 

patient_ot

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^^^ It is more likely that an R2R DAC adds something than a DS does. I have experienced the above with discrete R2R DACs, less so with chip R2R DACs. Probably has to do with higher harmonic distortion content.

The particular DAC that quoted person is referring to has higher harmonic distortion per the manufacturer's specs. The ENOB is ~14.
 
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