DAC to suit Benchmark HPA4 and AHB2 Setup

[DubbyMcDubs]

I am about to do an in-home trial of a Benchmark HPA4 and AHB2 setup and interested in opinions regarding a DAC to pair with them. It would be nice to pair it with the Benchmark DAC3 and keep it all matching, however it did not test as well as some of the Matrix Audio products. I have listed some choices below, not it any order, but would love to hear of any other recommended choices.

Benchmark DAC3
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...view-and-measurements-of-benchmark-dac3.3545/

Matrix Audio Element i
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...atrix-audio-element-i-usb-dac-streamer.10360/

Matrix Audio Element X
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...matrix-audio-element-x-dac-streamer-amp.7782/

Matrix Audio Element X X-Sabre Pro MQA
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...bre-pro-mqa-best-audio-dac-in-the-world.8729/

Topping D90
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/topping-d90-balanced-usb-dac-review.10519/

 

[pozz]

The Benchmark gear is based on the full 12 volt signal that the DAC3 outputs. The Benchmark DAC3 also has built-in headroom for intersample overs.

So there are tradeoffs in every combo.

 

[Fluffy]

What you need is a bench-duck.

 

[cjm2077]

I don't think you'd go wrong with any of those. One thing about the Benchmark Dacs are that they put out a higher max signal level, which allows the next stage to be set in lower gain mode for better noise performance. I run a Dac2 right into an AHB2 and have no problem getting it as loud as I want and more with the amp in low gain mode. But it looks like the noise levels are so low on the other DACS that it shouldn't be a real issue. I think I'd choose based on features you need. If you want a streamer as well, the Matrix Element X looks great, although I don't know anything about the app they have for streaming control. That can make and break products like that.

 

[Crazy_Nate]

Just a FYI, prepare to wait a little on HPA4 and AHB2 from Benchmark. They appear to be having a minor supply chain issue for some components on top of a lot of demand for both HPA4 and AHB2. I don't really hold this against Benchmark, but, I'm not very impatient. They're estimating a 3 week backorder.

Also, one of my friends just bought a D90 (I think it sounds very good with his THX789). I think there might be a chance for me to A/B it against a DAC3B. HPA4 has two balanced inputs. DAC3B can use one of the digital coax inputs as a passthrough, so you should be able to do some fairly easy DAC comparisons if you have another DAC on hand. I might try my Jotunheim too, but I doubt it'll hold a candle to either DAC3B or D90.

 

[ousi]

I had a Jotunheim with AKM DAC back when they just released it. The noise floor is the dealbreaker for me since my bedroom is rather quiet, and it's not as dynamic as even my Benchmark DAC2 HGC. The DAC3 is supposed to be even better than the DAC2.

BTW, if you wanna get it with a cheaper price, there are some factory refurb DAC2 on sale right now.

 

[GokieKS]

RME ADI-2 DAC FS? Even if in terms of pure performance it's only near the top of the charts rather than at the absolute top (at least for the AKM 4490 version - the updated AKM 4493 should be at least as good if not better), the build quality and features (especially for being used as a pre-amp) are top-notch.

 

[Crazy_Nate]

I had a Jotunheim with AKM DAC back when they just released it. The noise floor is the dealbreaker for me since my bedroom is rather quiet, and it's not as dynamic as even my Benchmark DAC2 HGC. The DAC3 is supposed to be even better than the DAC2.

BTW, if you wanna get it with a cheaper price, there are some factory refurb DAC2 on sale right now.

Yeah, that was the first thing I noticed about the Jotunheim. Definitely can hear the noise floor in quiet songs. I was never impressed with the dynamics, either.

 

[cjm2077]

Also, is there a specific reason you want the HPA4? Because with a Dac3 (and I'm sure some of the other options) you can get a great headphone amp circuit, switching of analog and digital inputs, and volume control. All with a remote. I use the Dac2 right into the AHB2, and there isn't really anything else I would want in a pre-amp.

 

[anmpr1]

Also, is there a specific reason you want the HPA4? Because with a Dac3 (and I'm sure some of the other options) you can get a great headphone amp circuit, switching of analog and digital inputs, and volume control. All with a remote. I use the Dac2 right into the AHB2, and there isn't really anything else I would want in a pre-amp.

An HPA will give you a better more powerful headphone amplifier, balance controls, more precise volume control mechanism, and replaces the multi LEDs with a little screen. The latter is of course strictly cosmetic. For a 'cost no consideration' set up the HPA-DAC3-AHB is probably the best solution. Especially if you have some analog sources you want to use.

I have a DAC3HGC and for the analog inputs do wish that it had a balance control. Along with A, B, A+B (summed mono) outs. If your sources are limited to digits running off a PC, that can be done in software, along with any FR equalization or other signal processing.

 

[anmpr1]

Yeah, that was the first thing I noticed about the Jotunheim. Definitely can hear the noise floor in quiet songs. I was never impressed with the dynamics, either.

Important point. I have highly sensitive speakers and with the DAC3HGC/AHB2 combo I hear no noise at all when volume is turned up, sans signal or in silent passages. Very quiet.

 

[DubbyMcDubs]

An HPA will give you a better more powerful headphone amplifier, balance controls, more precise volume control mechanism, and replaces the multi LEDs with a little screen. The latter is of course strictly cosmetic. For a 'cost no consideration' set up the HPA-DAC3-AHB is probably the best solution. Especially if you have some analog sources you want to use.

I have a DAC3HGC and for the analog inputs do wish that it had a balance control. Along with A, B, A+B (summed mono) outs. If your sources are limited to digits running off a PC, that can be done in software, along with any FR equalization or other signal processing.

Thanks for the replies guys. Great feedback.

To add to the above, I also like the HPA for it’s mono summed output I can use for my sub. I have a turntable I will be routing through it via balanced interconnects and would like to have balance control.

Generally speaking, the HPA performance is a very appealing option and allows me to marry it up to any high performing sources I get my hands on.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

An HPA will give you a better more powerful headphone amplifier, balance controls, more precise volume control mechanism, and replaces the multi LEDs with a little screen.

I'd call it a "big" screen relative to the size of the chassis and the paucity of displayed information.

 

[DubbyMcDubs]

OK so far I have rounded it down to the X-Sabre, D90 and DAC 3. My preference is leaning towards the X-Sabre, it looks like a very nice option.

The D90 is appealing due to the performance for the cost, and the DAC3 has the inter-sample over headroom but not sure how important that really is in reality.

 

[ayane]

The DAC3 has the inter-sample over headroom but not sure how important that really is in reality.

I also want to mention the RME ADI-2 DAC, which is similar to the one I have (ADI-2 Pro fs). It's got superlative DAC performance and the latest refresh released in Q4 2019 also gives about 3 dB of headroom for intersample overs.

Intersample overs are pretty ubiquitous actually, and few of the songs and albums in my library actually stay below 0 dBFS when measuring intersample clipping. I use SoX VHQ linear phase 99 passband to resample to 64x when scanning for the peaks withfoobar2000's replaygain scanner.

 

[JohnYang1997]

OK so far I have rounded it down to the X-Sabre, D90 and DAC 3. My preference is leaning towards the X-Sabre, it looks like a very nice option.

The D90 is appealing due to the performance for the cost, and the DAC3 has the inter-sample over headroom but not sure how important that really is in reality.

With digital volume control intersample headroom is basically nothing to write home about. You can use whatever attenuation you like and see if there is anything difference that way.
I mean these three aren't even at the remotely similar price brackets. To me there's simply no reason to not choose d90.
Only downside is the volume control interface is a bit retarded. Too slow if you click every individual step, too fast if you hold it down. But it's acceptable.

 

[DubbyMcDubs]

With digital volume control intersample headroom is basically nothing to write home about. You can use whatever attenuation you like and see if there is anything difference that way.
I mean these three aren't even at the remotely similar price brackets. To me there's simply no reason to not choose d90.
Only downside is the volume control interface is a bit retarded. Too slow if you click every individual step, too fast if you hold it down. But it's acceptable.

I won’t be using the volume control feature in the DAC so from that point of view all would be ok.

Yes, they are not in similar price ranges however I’m not really price sensitive and just want something that will complement the overall package with the Benchmark gear. That’s another benefit of the DAC3, it’s from the same manufacturer so it aesthetically matches and has the same 12v line levels as the preamp/amp.

 

[anmpr1]

I think that once you get past the inexpensive stuff (which can be easily replaced because you are not out too much to begin with), when deciding among the dozen or so top tier units other factors could (and likely should) take precedence. Build quality (sometimes difficult to judge), manufacturer's reputation, warranty, ease of getting the unit in and out of service if required, and even looks.

For example, I went all Benchmark set because they were a one-stop shop. It's hard to beat the amp, although you can find DACs with any one or another spec that is as good or better. Benchmark have been around a while and my interactions (phone) have always been positive; shipping is pretty much same day once your item is built (there's always a couple of week backorder on the amp); if you need quality but reasonably priced XLR/SpeakOn connectors (which I did) they will throw them in the same shipping package; documentation is thorough. An extended 5-year warranty (free after you register) is a plus.

The downside (admittedly a personal judgement) is that they don't look like they are from Accuphase Laboratory. Instead, a more industrial or studio, no-nonsense appearance. Nevertheless, actual fit and finish/build quality are first rate. The price is somewhat high, but not outrageious in the scheme of high end, and given what you actually get in the box.

 

[DubbyMcDubs]

I think that once you get past the inexpensive stuff (which can be easily replaced because you are not out too much to begin with), when deciding among the dozen or so top tier units other factors could (and likely should) take precedence. Build quality (sometimes difficult to judge), manufacturer's reputation, warranty, ease of getting the unit in and out of service if required, and even looks.

For example, I went all Benchmark set because they were a one-stop shop. It's hard to beat the amp, although you can find DACs with any one or another spec that is as good or better. Benchmark have been around a while and my interactions (phone) have always been positive; shipping is pretty much same day once your item is built (there's always a couple of week backorder on the amp); if you need quality but reasonably priced XLR/SpeakOn connectors (which I did) they will throw them in the same shipping package; documentation is thorough. An extended 5-year warranty (free after you register) is a plus.

The downside (admittedly a personal judgement) is that they don't look like they are from Accuphase Laboratory. Instead, a more industrial or studio, no-nonsense appearance. Nevertheless, actual fit and finish/build quality are first rate. The price is somewhat high, but not outrageious in the scheme of high end, and given what you actually get in the box.

Couldn’t agree more with your points. The Benchmark importer here has been amazing with pre sales and I need to factor that in, as you rightly point out. Also, they offered me the DAC3 to trial for a week as well as the amps. Can’t say the same for the local Matrix Audio importer who does not offer trials or keep regular stock.

 

[Crazy_Nate]

I think that once you get past the inexpensive stuff (which can be easily replaced because you are not out too much to begin with), when deciding among the dozen or so top tier units other factors could (and likely should) take precedence. Build quality (sometimes difficult to judge), manufacturer's reputation, warranty, ease of getting the unit in and out of service if required, and even looks.

For example, I went all Benchmark set because they were a one-stop shop. It's hard to beat the amp, although you can find DACs with any one or another spec that is as good or better. Benchmark have been around a while and my interactions (phone) have always been positive; shipping is pretty much same day once your item is built (there's always a couple of week backorder on the amp); if you need quality but reasonably priced XLR/SpeakOn connectors (which I did) they will throw them in the same shipping package; documentation is thorough. An extended 5-year warranty (free after you register) is a plus.

The downside (admittedly a personal judgement) is that they don't look like they are from Accuphase Laboratory. Instead, a more industrial or studio, no-nonsense appearance. Nevertheless, actual fit and finish/build quality are first rate. The price is somewhat high, but not outrageious in the scheme of high end, and given what you actually get in the box.

Hey - some of us like no-frills appearances. I don't need my gear to look like something out of a sci-fi movie (ahem...chord...). I generally pick black finished because they're less flashy.

Now I just have to find a good enough looking rack mount PC case to go along with the stack... Media PC needs a new home. Current case doesn't fit well in a rack mounted shelf.