DAC &streamer

[smoking_man]

I have an old Auralic G1 and a smsl su10.
I am not getting the clarity I was hoping for. I do try to explain it is the imaging and separation of instruments that seem to be a problem. On acoustic tracks were it is just one or two instruments it is fine but when an ensemble of musicians play the sound becomes constrained and unclear. Should i change my streamer or are bits bits? Or should i get a ladder DAC? I like the Gustard R30 and the Auralic g2.1?

 

[staticV3]

Ladder DACs don't reveal more detail, they obscure it.

With competently engineered Streamers like the WiiM Mini, Bits are indeed Bits as can be confirmed easily at home. E.g: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...arrives-on-spotify-premium.65717/post-2416332

I'd be shocked if the G1 failed such a test, but this you could test yourself for cheap.

The SU-10 I'd say is pretty much incapable of obscuring detail:

SMSL SU-10 DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the SMSL SU-10 Balanced DAC with Bluetooth. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $900. Front panel is smooth and slick and sports the new colorful display from SMSL with large volume level which I very much appreciate. Interestingly volume...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Even the highly complex Multitone signal:


Is resolved flawlessly by the SU-10:


So if your G1 streamer is outputting bits as it should, then the culprit must be downstream of the SU-1.

 

[RandomEar]

Adding to what @staticV3 correctly stated: In a modern HiFi system with decently competent components, the limiting factor will always be the speakers and the room acoustics. No DAC, pre-amp or amp should influence the sound in any audible way (disregarding EQ and loudness features) - if it did, something would be wrong.

If your sound lacks clarity, it's reasonable to assume that you would prefer more energy in the treble region. There are lots of ways to achieve that:

• Rotate your speakers inwards
• Use EQ to add a high shelf
• Add a pre-amp with bass/treble tuning knobs
• Get "brighter" speakers

 

[VintageFlanker]

Should i change my streamer

No-no. Neither your DAC nor your streamer is part of the problem here.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I am not getting the clarity I was hoping for

Perhaps the clarity you are hoping for is simply not in the recording. You can't recreate what's not there.

 

[smoking_man]

If that were the case, why does my vinyl setup not suffer from the same problem. There is distortion coming from the midrange in my digital setup and I do not know why.

 

[Zgrado1970]

I have an old Auralic G1 and a smsl su10.
I am not getting the clarity I was hoping for. I do try to explain it is the imaging and separation of instruments that seem to be a problem. On acoustic tracks were it is just one or two instruments it is fine but when an ensemble of musicians play the sound becomes constrained and unclear. Should i change my streamer or are bits bits? Or should i get a ladder DAC? I like the Gustard R30 and the Auralic g2.1?

The only solution is to purchase a DAC that you really cannot afford. Nothing creates better soundstage than a second mortgage.

Seriously though, you just need to change your understanding of how audio playback systems and human hearing work, which, while more difficult than changing DACs, is less expensive.

 

[voodooless]

Neither your DAC nor your streamer is part of the problem here.

Well, yeah. But they are also not part of the solution either . Something with EQ is of major value when facing these kinds of issues.

If that were the case, why does my vinyl setup not suffer from the same problem. There is distortion coming from the midrange in my digital setup and I do not know why.

Vinyl most likely doesn't use the same master, so you're not even listening to the same version of the songs. Generally, the digital versions will have way more compression and sound flatter. No DAC will fix that. If the particular album has an Atmos version, maybe try that (even for stereo), because generally these versions are mastered with more dynamics. But also here, a bit of EQ might fix some of the deficiencies... if you're lucky.

 

[RandomEar]

Unless your DAC is obviously broken, the answer is that the problem lies somewhere else. Initially you talked about missing clarity and "instrument separation", now it is distortion in the midrange - that's not the same thing. What exactly is the problem?

The fact that vinyl doesn't sound like a digital source is also not surprising at all. Apart from a vastly inferior noise and distortion profile, vinyl masters are typically cut using a much higher dynamic range than digital masters. This is on the one hand a mechanical limitation of vinyl and on the other hand a problem of excessive compression ("loudness wars") on non-vinyl recordings since the 90s or so. Since you cannot "un-compress" a dynamic-compressed recording, there's really no saving a digital file which sounds ****** in that way

EDIT: The forum software is censoring mild expletives now? What kind of bullsh*t is that?

 

[smoking_man]

Both distortion of the waveform makes reproduction impossible and imperfect.

 

[voodooless]

Both distortion of the waveform makes reproduction impossible and imperfect.

Show us the distortion...

 

[somebodyelse]

Then there's the variability of frequency response with vinyl - see the cartridge measurement library for examples. Flat response is the exception rather than the rule, often with a high frequency peak.

 

[smoking_man]

During recording and playback there is rarefaction and compression of the waveform in 3 dimensions and associated time.

 

[Purité Audio]

You wouldn’t hear anything if there wasn’t.
Keith

 

[smoking_man]

If you cannot capture the sound as a whole, then you cannot reproduce it perfectly.

 

[RandomEar]

I don't even get what this discussion is about anymore...

 

[voodooless]

If you cannot capture the sound as a whole, then you cannot reproduce it perfectly.

You also don’t have the room, nor the transducer to reproduce any of this.

Nevermind that almost all captured sound has gone though a mixing and mastering process, destroying any resemblances of the original recording. What you hear is a version tailored to be played though 2 speakers (or more in case of multichannel audio). “Reality” has no place in this.

But again: a DAC or speaker does not affect any of this.

 

[smoking_man]

Music is 4 dimensional, If a DAC can reproduce that I would be impressed. If there is a DAC that can imitate this in some way I want to buy it.

 

[voodooless]

Music is 4 dimensional, If a DAC can reproduce that I would be impressed. If there is a DAC that can imitate this in some way I want to buy it.

That’s just not what DACs do…

 

[Zgrado1970]

Music is 4 dimensional, If a DAC can reproduce that I would be impressed. If there is a DAC that can imitate this in some way I want to buy it.

If you keep thinking this way, you will find yourself repeatedly giving all your money to charlatans and conmen.