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DAC selection for home system....

rickyhgarcia

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I listen to music through my home theater system, that is built around a Marantz AV8005 sound processor. Although I have an older model OPPO BDP-95 multidisk player (which was labeled as "audiophile" because of its internal DAC), I have been bitten recently by the bug to play my CD´s through a dedicated CD tranport. For this I need a DAC. The DAC would also be use to incorporate a Windows 10 PC for gaming and streaming.

I was about to buy either a Schitt Gungnir or Bifrost with the Multibit upgrade, until I stumbled into this forum. Being a fan of audio equipment most of my life, I have read reviews based on listening test were words like "transparency", "depth", "clarity", "musical", "colorful" and so on have a meaning. Then there are tests like Amir´s, that measure electrical signals and can precisely pinpoint were those signals are at fault. DAC´s, which are not really musical machines but computers used to play music, can be precisely measured using Amir´s techniques. And here is the dilemma, which one should we trust? I tend to make decisions based on ALL these reviews, for the simple reason that the reviewers have access to many brands and model of equipment that I do not have, and, therefore, they can compare one piece of equipment to another.

I have read Amir´s reviews of the Bifrost and Gungnir with the Multibit upgrade, that measure not so good. Have they been measured without the Multibit option? It seems that the Topping brand of DAC´s is a favorite of this forum. The price and performance is right, although I prefer not to go Chinese. What other non-Chinese DAC´s compares favorably (i.e. price, performance) with the Topping DX7s?

Thanks...
 

graz_lag

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I listen to music through my home theater system, that is built around a Marantz AV8005 sound processor. Although I have an older model OPPO BDP-95 multidisk player (which was labeled as "audiophile" because of its internal DAC), I have been bitten recently by the bug to play my CD´s through a dedicated CD transport. For this I need a DAC. The DAC would also be use to incorporate a Windows 10 PC for gaming and streaming.

I was about to buy either a Schitt Gungnir or Bifrost with the Multibit upgrade, until I stumbled into this forum. Being a fan of audio equipment most of my life, I have read reviews based on listening test were words like "transparency", "depth", "clarity", "musical", "colorful" and so on have a meaning. Then there are tests like Amir´s, that measure electrical signals and can precisely pinpoint were those signals are at fault. DAC´s, which are not really musical machines but computers used to play music, can be precisely measured using Amir´s techniques. And here is the dilemma, which one should we trust? I tend to make decisions based on ALL these reviews, for the simple reason that the reviewers have access to many brands and model of equipment that I do not have, and, therefore, they can compare one piece of equipment to another.

I have read Amir´s reviews of the Bifrost and Gungnir with the Multibit upgrade, that measure not so good. Have they been measured without the Multibit option? It seems that the Topping brand of DAC´s is a favorite of this forum. The price and performance is right, although I prefer not to go Chinese. What other non-Chinese DAC´s compares favorably (i.e. price, performance) with the Topping DX7s?

Thanks...

Some questions abt. what the configuration of your setup will be :

- Are you going to set up an Audio PC so USB Audio ? (With W10 as OS.)
- What output connection are you going to use from the CD transport ?
- Do you like to have a remote to operate the DAC ?
- For the network connectivity, the Marantz AV8005 offers it, so you do not need that in the DAC as well
- Any color preference ? Black or Silver
- Budget ?

I have an Oppo 105, which represents some sort of minor upgrade of the 95, I have the Topping DX7s, which has replaced the NAD M51 in one of my setups.

Personally, I take one of the Chinese premium brands (Aune, Gustard, Oppo, Singxer, SMSL, Topping, etc ...) any day over Schiit ...
 
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bravomail

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Schiit Modi 3 measured really well. Magni 3 is also pretty good - it's amp, not DAC. Schiit's bigger products didn't measure well at all.
 

graz_lag

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The Schit Family.png
 
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rickyhgarcia

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- Are you going to set up an Audio PC so USB Audio ? (With W10 as OS.)
- What output connection are you going to use from the CD transport ?
- Do you like to have a remote to operate the DAC ?
- For the network connectivity, the Marantz AV8005 offers it, so you do not need that in the DAC as well
- Any color preference ? Black or Silver
- Budget ?

PC outputs for gaming needs to be HDMI directly to the AV processor, otherwise no multi-channel playback...correct? PC music streaming would be USB to the DAC. The CD transport would be digital S/PDIF COAX. Remote would be nice. Actually the PC would have the network connectivity for music streaming. The AV processor too, but for firmware upgrades. For a home theater environment, everything should be black. No more than $1K for the DAC.

It sounds like I am describing the DX7s....
 
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rickyhgarcia

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Schiit Modi 3 measured really well. Magni 3 is also pretty good - it's amp, not DAC. Schiit's bigger products didn't measure well at all.

Modi 3 is without the Multibit option. Maybe the Multibit feature implementation is what it is wrong with the poor measured Schitt´s??
 

Gyroscopics

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I recently introduced Schiit Modi 3 + Schiit Loki in my dedicated 2 channel home system and got great results. My intention was to bypass the Bluesound Node 2's inferior internal DAC. Loki was necessary because my 2 ch integrated amp has no room correction. I have an AVR (Denon X4400H) dedicated for home theater use only, because I don't like its 2 ch performance. You may refer to this discussion for more details:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ound-node-2i-streamer.6631/page-4#post-154708

BTW I also own Topping DACs which I use for headphone systems, both D10 and D50 actually. I only chose Modi+Loki for better form factor in the living room. D50 sounds better than Modi 3, the difference is audible especially on headphone systems.

One other thing, Modi 3 suffers from bass reduction (and SQ degradation) when using USB input while also being powered from wall receptacle via the 2nd micro-usb input. So, if you go the Modi 3 route and plan on using USB input along with either coax or toslink input (and therefore need external power) you will face this issue. D50 doesn't have this issue.
 
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LTig

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I listen to music through my home theater system, that is built around a Marantz AV8005 sound processor. Although I have an older model OPPO BDP-95 multidisk player (which was labeled as "audiophile" because of its internal DAC), I have been bitten recently by the bug to play my CD´s through a dedicated CD tranport. For this I need a DAC.
I could not find data about the AV8005, only an AV8003. This has several SPDIF inputs where you can connect the CD transport. No need for a dedicated DAC.
 

Sal1950

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I listen to music through my home theater system, that is built around a Marantz AV8005 sound processor. Although I have an older model OPPO BDP-95 multidisk player (which was labeled as "audiophile" because of its internal DAC), I have been bitten recently by the bug to play my CD´s through a dedicated CD tranport. For this I need a DAC. The DAC would also be use to incorporate a Windows 10 PC for gaming and streaming.
Let me throw a bit of water on your bug bite.
The Oppo has very good internal DAC's, it uses two 8-channel, 32-bit ESS SABRE32 ES9018 Reference Audio DACs which should supply a fully transparent source. I understand the desire for new gear, just don't dive into this believing in some magical increase in sound quality.. I might suggest saving that money for a speaker upgrade sometime in the future, or some better digital room correction system. ;)
YMMV
 
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rickyhgarcia

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Let me throw a bit of water on your bug bite.
The Oppo has very good internal DAC's, it uses two 8-channel, 32-bit ESS SABRE32 ES9018 Reference Audio DACs which should supply a fully transparent source. I understand the desire for new gear, just don't dive into this believing in some magical increase in sound quality.. I might suggest saving that money for a speaker upgrade sometime in the future, or some better digital room correction system. ;)
YMMV

Thanks Sal. You just hit the jackpot, and maybe stumbling into this forum will clear all doubts. For a long time I have been looking at all this DAC fever, and then there are DAC´s (a computer board!!) that can cost as much as $20k...insane. Likewise, there are US$99 DAC´s that perform better than DAC´s costing over US$2k from the same company...insane. I know I have DAC´s in my OPPO and the AV processor, but the hype always indicated that a dedicated DAC was better than what is inside these boxes. I read Amir´s review on the Marantz AV8005, which tested poorly, but is feature rich. Perhaps it is time to move to a new AV processor, like the US-made Emotiva RMC-1 (I hope it get tested here), that is as much feature rich as the Marantz.

I guess that the standalone DAC main purpose is to integrate a PC into a music system (???), and the sophisticated ($$$) DAC´s should fit the degree of sophistication of the music system that it is going into. Or if poor internal DAC´s, as in the Marantz AV8005, would necessitate an external DAC for sound improvement.
 

RayDunzl

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*wonders what speakers he has now that need upgrading...
 

rwortman

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If your idea is to run the output of your new DAC into an analog input on your Pre-Pro, in my opinion you are wasting your money. Just send the digital output of the Oppo to your 8005 via SPDIF or HDMI and listen to the music. If you want to set up a separate two channel system using your front amp channels, that's a different story. I am using a Music Fidelity V90-DAC feeding a Schiit Saga preamp. This goes to a Schiit SYS ( just to have a nice no noise two way switch). The other input to the SYS is the front L/R of my AVR preamp. The output of the SYS goes to my front L/R amp. Now can listen to my 5.1 setup or my stereo setup which includes streamer, turntable, and CD player, whichever mood I'm in. In my opinion, most reasonably well designed DAC's are going to sound close enough to identical to make the difference not worth worrying about. Buy one from a company you like or that you like the looks of or whatever is decent a cheap. It depends on your priorities. Not many people really want to look at an ugly cobbed together device sitting on their audio rack.
 

GoMrPickles

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I listen to music through my home theater system, that is built around a Marantz AV8005 sound processor
I think there might be a typo here; I think you're using the 8805 that @amirm measured?

Were you able to find specs (e.g., THD) for the Emotiva? I checked their site and may have missed it. It has the same DACs (AKM 4490) as the Marantz AV8802A, just more of them (I think). As has been covered elsewhere, that doesn't mean much, aside from the fact that the performance ceiling would be the same as the Marantz; the implementation (obviously) matters.
 
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rickyhgarcia

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Amps and speakers I think I am ok. Have three Moscode (tubes/mosfets) amps, on the way is an Emotiva Gen3 amp for additional 5 channels. Speakers are Magnepan front and center channels, Zu Audio for stereo listening, and a pair of ADS speakers (with refreshed drivers) I own since 1985 as rear surrounds. And an SVS SB-4000 subwoofer. Stereo analog was a much simpler matter than the multichannels digital systems of today.
 
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rickyhgarcia

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I think there might be a typo here; I think you're using the 8805 that @amirm measured?

Were you able to find specs (e.g., THD) for the Emotiva? I checked their site and may have missed it. It has the same DACs (AKM 4490) as the Marantz AV8802A, just more of them (I think). As has been covered elsewhere, that doesn't mean much, aside from the fact that the performance ceiling would be the same as the Marantz; the implementation (obviously) matters.

Yeap...the same Amir indicated poor implementation by Marantz. I hope Amir gets to test more AV processors...
 

Ram18

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Hi

Am new to this forum.I am thinking of using this Schiit SYS as a switcher to separate my music for stereo and HT for movies. Need your advise on this.

So i have an onkyo RZ830 AVR which is connected to my XTZ A 2 300 stereo power amp. I have Klipsch 6000f RP front speakers currently connected to my power amp too for stereo music routed through the onkyo. I have a marantz cd ud 7007 player connected to onkyo. And jamo surround and front height speakers as well as my two klipsch subs connected to my onkyo

I am planning to get a Schiit Freya + preamp and node 2i. Now can i connect all my stereo sources to my Freya pre amp. This would mean my marantz and node 2i and are connected to the preamp and then connected to Schiit SYS. Also can i connect my Onkyo to Schiit SYS for HT.

And then I connect the Schiit SYS to my XTZ stereo power amp. So i can switch between the Onkyo for HT and node 2i and marantz for music routed through Freya + preamp

Does this also mean i cant use my subs for stereo as both subs are connected to my Onkyo for HT? Is there a way around this?

Sorry for the long note. Am just trying to see how i can make things work and if this Schiit SYS can be a solution. My aim is to use the Schiit SYS not as a pre amp but purely as a switcher so I dont need to plug and unplug cables from my power amp each time i listen to music or watch HT. I also hope this addition to the chain would not compromise sound quality.


Appreciate your views pl.
 

rwortman

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I am doing pretty much the same thing. I added another different brand of switcher to switch my sub between my Saga and my AVR.
 

Dilliw

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I've ditched the PC and that cured all of my source problems.

A reconditioned LG G7 is less than $200 on Ebay right now. It's Quad Dac measures very well (see Amir's test) or you can Apt-X HD bluetooth via an adapter. It handles 24bit files fine, can play most any file format, and can support a 2TB micro SD card.
 

GeorgeWalk

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I recently introduced Schiit Modi 3 + Schiit Loki in my dedicated 2 channel home system and got great results. My intention was to bypass the Bluesound Node 2's inferior internal DAC. Loki was necessary because my 2 ch integrated amp has no room correction. I have an AVR (Denon X4400H) dedicated for home theater use only, because I don't like its 2 ch performance. You may refer to this discussion for more details:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ound-node-2i-streamer.6631/page-4#post-154708

BTW I also own Topping DACs which I use for headphone systems, both D10 and D50 actually. I only chose Modi+Loki for better form factor in the living room. D50 sounds better than Modi 3, the difference is audible especially on headphone systems.

One other thing, Modi 3 suffers from bass reduction (and SQ degradation) when using USB input while also being powered from wall receptacle via the 2nd micro-usb input. So, if you go the Modi 3 route and plan on using USB input along with either coax or toslink input (and therefore need external power) you will face this issue. D50 doesn't have this issue.

Shout out to the Loki! I have one that I use to equalize my headphones and it does an excellent job. (Currently using Macbook Pro -> Topping D90 -> Loki -> JDS Atom Amp -> HD 660s)
 
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