DAC recommendations

[cam]

Hello everyone,

I’m relatively new to the hi-fi world, and I currently have the following setup:
• NAD M33
• 2x 3m Nordost White Lightning speaker cables, connecting to Triangle Antal ESW speakers
• Streaming music via AirPlay 2 from my iPhone or iPad.

After listening to the Bowers & Wilkins 804 D4, I’ve decided to upgrade my speakers to these beauties. As I move forward, I aim to achieve lossless Hi-Res playback with the following new setup:
• NAD M33
• B&W 804 D4

Questions:
1. Speaker Cables: Should I stick with my current Nordost White Lightning cables, or would upgrading to AudioQuest Rocket 88 provide a significant improvement? Any other recommendations?
2. Hi-Res Playback Upgrade: I understand AirPlay 2’s limitations with Hi-Res audio.

To address this, I’m considering adding an external DAC and related cables. Based on my research, I’ve narrowed it down to:
• DAC: Topping D10s
• Cables:
• USB Options: AudioQuest Cinnamon USB 2.0 (1.5 m) or AudioQuest Carbon USB 2.0 C>B (1.5 m)?
• Digital Audio Options: AudioQuest Carbon Black (0.75 m coaxial) or AudioQuest Carbon Optical Toslink (1.5 m)?

Do you think this is a good combination for maximizing Hi-Res playback with the NAD M33? Or are there better alternatives within a similar budget?

I’d greatly appreciate your insights and recommendations

Cheers

 

[Blumlein 88]

The AQ would not offer any improvement on cables.

The D10s or D10B (balanced) would be fine if this is how you wish to go.

The USB cables will make no difference. Just get a good USB 2.0 compliant cable and it will be fine. Ditto on the Toslink cables. Simple Toslink from Monoprice or similar will do what you need.

 

[JSmith]

Hello, welcome to ASR.

1. Speaker Cables: Should I stick with my current Nordost White Lightning cables, or would upgrading to AudioQuest Rocket 88 provide a significant improvement? Any other recommendations?

Expensive/fancy cables are a complete waste of time and will not yield any improvement whatsoever. Read around the forum and look at cable tests by Amir.

B&W 804 D4

B & W are generally not very accurate speakers;

Bowers & Wilkins Diamond Series 804 D4 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system, a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone, and an Earthworks microphone preamplifier to measure the Bowers & Wilkins 804 D4's frequency response in the farfield. My primary axis for the measurements was level with the tweeter, but I also performed a...

www.stereophile.com

My suggestion is to look at the speaker testing measurements here and pick something better.

I’m considering adding an external DAC

Why? The NADM33 has an internal DAC. AFAIK, it doesn't have any analog pass-through, so analog in will be digitised and converted back to analog for output. If you add a DAC, you will have multiple conversions and you will still have the same noise and distortion that the amp always had.


JSmith

 

[cam]

The AQ would not offer any improvement on cables.

noted with thanks. I will search the forum for cables comparison tests made from Amir as suggested by Jsmith

The D10s or D10B (balanced) would be fine if this is how you wish to go.

Actually, I am open to any other suggestions. Feel free to share what you may think of a "better" option?

The USB cables will make no difference. Just get a good USB 2.0 compliant cable and it will be fine. Ditto on the Toslink cables. Simple Toslink from Monoprice or similar will do what you need.

Alright!

Thank you for the reply Appreciate it

 

[cam]

Hello, welcome to ASR.

Expensive/fancy cables are a complete waste of time and will not yield any improvement whatsoever. Read around the forum and look at cable tests by Amir.

Alright, thank you for the advice. I am going to search for those tests.

B & W are generally not very accurate speakers;
View attachment 408300

Bowers & Wilkins Diamond Series 804 D4 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system, a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone, and an Earthworks microphone preamplifier to measure the Bowers & Wilkins 804 D4's frequency response in the farfield. My primary axis for the measurements was level with the tweeter, but I also performed a...

www.stereophile.com

My suggestion is to look at the speaker testing measurements here and pick something better.

Noted, will definately take a look at it.

Why? The NADM33 has an internal DAC. AFAIK, it doesn't have any analog pass-through, so analog in will be digitised and converted back to analog for output. If you add a DAC, you will have multiple conversions and you will still have the same noise and distortion that the amp always had.

As far as I understand (newbie here..), I wanted to do the following:
ipad/iphone (usb-c out) <--cable 1--> (usb-b in) DAC D10s or similar (out via coax or toslink) <--cable 2--> (coax or toslink in) NAD M33 <--nordost--> speakers

I thought transmission via cable 1 is digital, then the DAC D10s set as "bridge" (read no digital to analog to digital conversion) to transfer the signal via cable 2) to the digital input of the NAD M33.
Did I misunderstand how the D10s or others DACs work?
My goal is trying to go all-digital till the speakers output of the M33 using the highest bitrate provided by apple music.

I have not tried the iphone/ipad (usb-c) <---> (usb-a) M33 directly as the specs of the NAD M33 precise this is an usb port used for files reading and/or firmware update.

Looking forward to reading you Cheers

 

[voodooless]

As far as I understand (newbie here..), I wanted to do the following:
ipad/iphone (usb-c out) <--cable 1--> (usb-b in) DAC D10s or similar (out via coax or toslink) <--cable 2--> (coax or toslink in) NAD M33 <--nordost--> speakers

That is not using a DAC, that is just a box that converts USB to SPDIF. The D10s will be fine for that. SMSL PO100 will also do fine, just cheaper.

The D10s happens to also provide a DAC, but in your case, you'll not be using it.

I have not tried the iphone/ipad (usb-c) <---> (usb-a) M33 directly as the specs of the NAD M33 precise this is an usb port used for files reading and/or firmware update.

It is. You can't use it to connect any USB audio devices.

As others have mentioned, rethink your speaker choice!

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi, I'll probably just echo what the others say, but hopefully the repetition helps;

Don't pay any attention to cables, at all. As long as they are competently made and your speaker cables are not stupidly thin they don't matter. Applies to speaker cables and interconnects.

Your NAD does a *lot* are you sure you need anything else? What source do you use for music, what do you stream? The NAD can probably just stream it without needing your iPhone in the loop.
You might like to look at Roon - a streaming environment that integrates different sources and makes the user experience much nicer. Not cheap, but should be within your budget. Your NAD is "Roon ready".

Agree that you should probably look at other speaker choices. Speaker preference can be quite personal though (different from electronics). If you end up still liking the B&W's then it's you choice. Do look around though.

It'll be a great system thought, enjoy

 

[cam]

That is not using a DAC, that is just a box that converts USB to SPDIF. The D10s will be fine for that. SMSL PO100 will also do fine, just cheaper.

The D10s happens to also provide a DAC, but in your case, you'll not be using it.

thank you for the clarification. my initial requests was not accurate and it is indeed not a DAC that I need, just a box converting USB-C To SPDIF.

As others have mentioned, rethink your speaker choice!

I haven't really done any research on speakers because I just got seduced by the 804d4 speakers and did not listen to any other beside my Triangle Antal ESW.

With the same budget (±15k CHF/USD/EUR where I live), what would you be thinking of? I am keen on collecting feedbacks on that.

Thanks so much for you reply!

 

[cam]

Don't pay any attention to cables, at all. As long as they are competently made and your speaker cables are not stupidly thin they don't matter. Applies to speaker cables and interconnects.

noted with thanks!

Your NAD does a *lot* are you sure you need anything else? What source do you use for music, what do you stream? The NAD can probably just stream it without needing your iPhone in the loop.
You might like to look at Roon - a streaming environment that integrates different sources and makes the user experience much nicer. Not cheap, but should be within your budget. Your NAD is "Roon ready".

I just have Apple Music and I stream content via Airplay 2 to the NAD M33 but wont be able to stream hi-res. So far, there is no integration with Apple Music from NAD.
Roon does not seem to have any integration with Apple music so that won't be helping I guess.

Agree that you should probably look at other speaker choices. Speaker preference can be quite personal though (different from electronics). If you end up still liking the B&W's then it's you choice. Do look around though.

Within the same budget (±15k USD/CHF/EUR), which speakers would you suggest I take a look at?

Cheers

 

[EdW]

thank you for the clarification. my initial requests was not accurate and it is indeed not a DAC that I need, just a box converting USB-C To SPDIF.


I haven't really done any research on speakers because I just got seduced by the 804d4 speakers and did not listen to any other beside my Triangle Antal ESW.

With the same budget (±15k CHF/USD/EUR where I live), what would you be thinking of? I am keen on collecting feedbacks on that.

Thanks so much for you reply!

In the EU or UK consider KEF. In the US consider Revel also. It’s a question of local price and availability of demos at dealers in each country.
For example, in the UK you could get a deal on ex demo KEF Reference 5 meta at about £13K per pair. This would be in flawless condition with the full KEF 5 year warranty. This would outperform B&W 804D4 speakers rather easily.

 

[Blumlein 88]

For a USB to SPDIF converter get a Douk Audio U2. There is also a U2 Pro for a few dollars more. The difference is the U2 works up to 192 khz 32 bit and the Pro works up to 384 khz 32 bit. I favor the regular U2 as it is a nice neat small size. USB in and optical and coax SPDIF out.

It is the red one in this review. They are available in red or black. I have one of these myself. In the USA they are about $55.

PHIREE U2S 2019 & Douk Audio U2 Review and Measurements (Digital USB to S/PDIF Interfaces)

PHIREE U2S 2019 & Douk Audio U2 Review and Measurements (Digital USB to S/PDIF Interfaces) Update March 2022: Added comparison with the Douk Audio U2. Here is a quick review of the PHIREE U2S 2019 digital interface. This is basically some USB to S/PDIF converter that allows you to get USB...

www.audiosciencereview.com

That would let you send files from a computer or similar to the input of your NAD M33.

 

[JeremyFife]

noted with thanks!


I just have Apple Music and I stream content via Airplay 2 to the NAD M33 but wont be able to stream hi-res. So far, there is no integration with Apple Music from NAD.
Roon does not seem to have any integration with Apple music so that won't be helping I guess.


Within the same budget (±15k USD/CHF/EUR), which speakers would you suggest I take a look at?

Cheers

I'm not massively familiar with streaming Apple Music, so apologies if this is also not helpful but don't the new Bluesound Node streamers give you that and Airplay 2? Use them as a streaming transport: digital into your NAD.

Speakers, ... if it was my money I'd also be looking at Revel or KEF ... or, if the looks don't phase you I'd love a pair of these (active, so your NAD becomes a processor and preamp) https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/genelec-8361a-review-powered-monitor.28039/