DAC + preamp, DAC no preamp, leave as is

[Drakon]

I wasn't sure which forum this fit so I thought to parachute in here since my questions cover DAC, preamp, analog signal paths.

My current signal flow path is cell phone to Bluetooth receiver using its pre amp out to feed a power amp which drives tower speakers. I can also reroute the signal via the receiver to drive other speakers directly from it's outputs. Currently all music is streamed.

A open reel recorder and turntable sit idle.

I have an opportunity to get a very nice preamp at a considerable discount but removing the receiver means having to find a means of getting the streaming cell signal to the amplifier. So it sounds like elimination of the receiver means buying two components a DAC and preamplifier.

I'm not ready for that expense. So would buying the preamp alone be pointless since at the moment the receiver does all of the switching and feeds the power amplifier? I'm guessing I'm using the receiver's DAC and not that of the phone. It's a nice AV receiver.

Also I don't use the recorder or turntable at the moment but would like to at some point.

My thoughts are since both the turntable and recorder would not be used for critical listening I should just leave those hooked to the receiver and listen via the speakers it drives directly.

Perhaps buy a DAC capable of feeding the amp and divorce streaming from receiver? And keep the preamp money in my wallet. The preamp is $2k.

A preamp regardless of how nice if not needed for switching becomes another (unnecessary) device in the signals path.

What i have works for me but considering the current investment am i stopping shy of a better way of doing things.

 

[thcdru2k]

Separate preamp only makes sense if you think you will eventually move towards full separates (separate streamer, separate DAC, separate phono stage).

 

[staticV3]

So would buying the preamp alone be pointless since at the moment the receiver does all of the switching and feeds the power amplifier?

You could certainly connect BT Receiver->Preamp->Power Amp.

From a SQ perspective though, unless you're currently hearing hiss out of your speakers which goes away when you plug out the BT receiver, the Preamp would not achieve anything.

I'm guessing I'm using the receiver's DAC and not that of the phone. It's a nice AV receiver.

A DAC turns digital audio into analog.

Since Bluetooth transmits digital audio, it's physically impossible for your phone's DAC to be in use.

What i have works for me but considering the current investment am i stopping shy of a better way of doing things.

The best thing you can do for playback quality is find a way to run all of your sound sources through room correction DSP.

On that front, it'd be useful to know exactly which BT Receiver, Power Amp, Reel corder, and turntable you own.

 

[Drakon]

The receiver is a Yamaha Aventage which has the ability to run room analysis and audio compensation. I've never used that as the tower loudspeakers are in another room. As for the turntable if replaced it will be by a Technics most likely a GR2. The open reel is also a Technics circa late 70's to 80's.

The listening room is hardly ideal so perhaps spending thousands without assurances is a true roll off the dice.

 

[Roland68]

I wasn't sure which forum this fit so I thought to parachute in here since my questions cover DAC, preamp, analog signal paths.

My current signal flow path is cell phone to Bluetooth receiver using its pre amp out to feed a power amp which drives tower speakers. I can also reroute the signal via the receiver to drive other speakers directly from it's outputs. Currently all music is streamed.

A open reel recorder and turntable sit idle.

I have an opportunity to get a very nice preamp at a considerable discount but removing the receiver means having to find a means of getting the streaming cell signal to the amplifier. So it sounds like elimination of the receiver means buying two components a DAC and preamplifier.

I'm not ready for that expense. So would buying the preamp alone be pointless since at the moment the receiver does all of the switching and feeds the power amplifier? I'm guessing I'm using the receiver's DAC and not that of the phone. It's a nice AV receiver.

Also I don't use the recorder or turntable at the moment but would like to at some point.

My thoughts are since both the turntable and recorder would not be used for critical listening I should just leave those hooked to the receiver and listen via the speakers it drives directly.

Perhaps buy a DAC capable of feeding the amp and divorce streaming from receiver? And keep the preamp money in my wallet. The preamp is $2k.

A preamp regardless of how nice if not needed for switching becomes another (unnecessary) device in the signals path.

What i have works for me but considering the current investment am i stopping shy of a better way of doing things.

Take a look at the SMSL D200, which has a built-in analog preamplifier/volume control with an output buffer and delivers excellent measured performance. Better than most expensive preamplifiers.
You can connect analog devices via the MiniDSP ADC, for example. There's no sonic disadvantage to this.

I now know several people who have replaced preamplifiers costing thousands of euros with exactly this combination and are absolutely delighted with it.
But they found it really difficult to accept this simple (and inexpensive) solution.

 

[Drakon]

Take a look at the SMSL D200, . . .

Thank you I will.

But they found it really difficult to accept this simple (and inexpensive) solution.

Human conditioning. More always means better and more $$$$ has to perform better. If that thinking was eliminated the retail market and boutiques would crash overnight.

 

[Drakon]

I've heard goodc things about these as well. RME ADI 2 DAC FS as well as the Topping D90.

What i understand is some DACs are more suited as preamplifier substitutes and other usage - more inputs/less outputs or less inputs/more outputs, etc.

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Chrispy]

I've heard goodc things about these as well. RME ADI 2 DAC FS as well as the Topping D90.

What i understand is some DACs are more suited as preamplifier substitutes and other usage - more inputs/less outputs or less inputs/more outputs, etc.

I appreciate the feedback.

Sure, different units will have different capabilities that may be more suited to your application than not. DAC itself is just a digital to analog conversion....not all that important in the bigger picture by itself, it's a long resolved problem.

 

[Miniyouuuu]

You want to substitute your Yamaha Aventage with another preamp and you don’t want to loose your Bluetooth streaming and the chance to connect a Turntable and a recorder. What do you want to get with that movement?

Receivers condense a lot of functions that maybe you are not using, but a preamp are usually much simpler devices.

Do you use multichannel or just stereo?
Do you use TV audio through HDMI? Any Dolby/atmos requirements?
Do you have a sub? Are you planing to have 1 or 2?
Do you use room correction? You would like to adjust the sound with EQ?
You use Bluetooth, but which is your streaming platform? Spotify connect, airplay, any other WiFi alternatives will improve your experience.

Your Yamaha has a multichannel DAC, you can add a new stereo DAC before it using any input, but there the preamp of the Yamaha can add noise to your audio. Some DAC have volume control and inputs, there you can substitute completely the Yamaha but you loose some facts (multichannel…)

I have a 2.2 layout with Dirac and not many preamps can provide this.

 

[Drakon]

Do you use multichannel or just stereo? Stereo

Do you use TV audio through HDMI? Any Dolby/atmos requirements? No

Do you have a sub? Are you planing to have 1 or 2? Two powered subs

Do you use room correction? No

You would like to adjust the sound with EQ? Not sure how to go about this. The receiver can do it.

You use Bluetooth, but which is your streaming platform? Spotify

 

[Miniyouuuu]

Ok. 2.2 layout is simple through line out existing in many preamps, but difficult if you want to set delay, gain, EQ and crossover per sub. To me that’s mandatory because sub integration is crucial.
Give a look at any MiniDSP flex. No Spotify connect but you get Bluetooth.

 

[Drakon]

Thank you. Subs are built in. I'll look for a DAC that has standard inputs. I would use it for the recorder and turntable. I don't use a tuner. One thing i do like is being able to switch speakers with a push of a button on the receiver's tree remote. Preamp to amp to tower loudspeakers (zone 2) or receiver outs to bookshelfs which are part of the surround speaker system (main). Those can also be isolated in stereo mode.

 

[Drakon]

I'm taking a step back to restudy the ABCs of DAC and streamer build and usage. Also rethinking the source platform. Spotify, which i have now use to compress all files. They stepped up to higher sampling in 2025 but whether they are at Tidal or Apple's level I'll find out.

The source needs to be clean or its the old garbage in garbage out scenario.

There's arguments on both sides as to combining both or separates. Some suggest everything separated others say integrate.

Since i do not have an ideal listening room i have more room (pun intended) for compromise on the DAC and streamer since speaker placement and room acoustics are and will never be perfect. I'm honest enough to realize that state-of-the-art might look pretty and have the name but I'll likely never hear the difference. But will feel it - $$$$.

 

[Chrispy]

I wasn't sure which forum this fit so I thought to parachute in here since my questions cover DAC, preamp, analog signal paths.

My current signal flow path is cell phone to Bluetooth receiver using its pre amp out to feed a power amp which drives tower speakers. I can also reroute the signal via the receiver to drive other speakers directly from it's outputs. Currently all music is streamed.

A open reel recorder and turntable sit idle.

I have an opportunity to get a very nice preamp at a considerable discount but removing the receiver means having to find a means of getting the streaming cell signal to the amplifier. So it sounds like elimination of the receiver means buying two components a DAC and preamplifier.

I'm not ready for that expense. So would buying the preamp alone be pointless since at the moment the receiver does all of the switching and feeds the power amplifier? I'm guessing I'm using the receiver's DAC and not that of the phone. It's a nice AV receiver.

Also I don't use the recorder or turntable at the moment but would like to at some point.

My thoughts are since both the turntable and recorder would not be used for critical listening I should just leave those hooked to the receiver and listen via the speakers it drives directly.

Perhaps buy a DAC capable of feeding the amp and divorce streaming from receiver? And keep the preamp money in my wallet. The preamp is $2k.

A preamp regardless of how nice if not needed for switching becomes another (unnecessary) device in the signals path.

What i have works for me but considering the current investment am i stopping shy of a better way of doing things.

With bluetooth involved, why change dac that isn't particularly being used for that stream? I don't see what use the preamp would be if your receiver handles the sources fine as is. What pre-amp is it that's worth 2k to essentially do nothing new?

 

[Drakon]

Its a high(er) end receiver but likely more designed for the theater crowd which did replace a Sony AV receiver. Therefore I'm not sure about the preamp and DAC and Yamaha"s commitment and investment there as having it blend with higher fidelity.

I need a streamer regardless to detach from the phones Bluetooth compression.

Perhaps go with the streamer for now feeding the receiver and continue the research on what if any DAC will work for me using the good suggestions here. Then later combine the steamer, DAC and amplifier as one. The DAC needs to feed the amplifier directly. Remember that amplifier drives only the tower speakers. It and those speakers are the critical listening side.

I'm considering a Cambridge Audio EXN100. :

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en/manuals/exn100#technical_specications

 

[Drakon]

Done. Cambridge ordered. Thank you for the thoughts.

 

[Drakon]

Hmm. Spotify Connect issues. Spotify app says EXN100 is not lossless (Connect) capable and that option is greyed out. Cambridge Audio support says it is Connect capable and it's a Spotify app issue. After performing Cambridge troubleshooting steps Connect option disappeared from the Cambridge Streammagic software choice and now Spotify doesn't connect in any fashion. Thank you England.

Connects to Tidal without issues.

I generally shop Crutchfield. I had the NAD C658, Bluesound Node Icon and HiFi Rose RS451 cued up after chatting with them. They the checked the boxes: ethernet, balanced xlr outs etc. Seems Amir didn’t like the NAD or Bluesound and the HiFi Rose is a rim shot being twice what I'd prefer to pay. NAD too.

Mushing on. Will contact Spotify next.

Long return window for device.