DAC Noise Modulation: Chord DAVE vs Topping DX7 Pro+

[phoenixdogfan]

I am virtually certain that in a blind level matched listening test I couldn't tell the difference between either of these two, because their noise and distortions are so low, they would be inaudible to me and I think virtually everyone else--noise floor and their modulation levels notwithstanding.

What I would be able to tell, however, in a sighted bank statement reading is the account balance modulation difference between these two, with the Topping providing far less severe, though not insignificant levels of difference.

Then there's the looks factor. One of them is fat and ugly with a facial feature that if a human had it, would cry out for cosmetic surgery. That it's an intentional design feature, showcases the bizarro aesthetics of the Chord design team.

The Topping, on the other hand, is slim, smooth, and symetrical--exactly what I used to look for when I frequented singles' bars.

 

[Doodski]

in a sighted bank statement reading is the account balance modulation difference

RFLMAO...

 

[the_brunx]

So Rob responded on ad-fi,
We are now back to don’t trust science, measurements, anyone or anything, not even me just please get the Ka-ching Ka-ching >16000 dollar thing and trust your own ears in an uncontrolled setting, yeah right:

It’s almost like playing this video for someone and saying if you hear a difference I win 16000 from you.

 

[Doodski]

He's using the, "Puppy dog close" method where the salesperson advises the buyer to take the puppy home for a couple of days and see how it works out. A desperate plea is what it is.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

He's using the, "Puppy dog close" method where the salesperson advises the buyer to take the puppy home for a couple of days and see how it works out. A desperate plea is what it is.

Something like that was expected. No matter how many data, facts and tests one would present the company and many owners, they would discount it in order to a) protect their profit and b) to justify their purchase decision. Try converting flat earthers etc.

The hope I have however is, that future buyers can make an informed decision whether or not they shell out 10plus k

Thanks Amir btw.

 

[Music1969]

The awakening

 

[Geert]

He's using the, "Puppy dog close" method where the salesperson advises the buyer to take the puppy home for a couple of days and see how it works out.

And confuses measurements with opinions...

 

[PeteL]

Very interesting analysis indeed. High-end british Goliath beaten by chinese David. I wonder, reading this. These are sharp end measurements, right? In a broader sense could you give some credit to the Dave DAC over the Topping, apart from the Daves rather polarizing exteriors. Is there any credit to give? What do all those extra sterlings actually pay for. Is there some better volume control technology, or anything really. @amirm

Probably hard to find publicly disclosed revenue and sales data of Chinese companies, but I am quite inclined to think that you have David and Goliath backward.

 

[Matias]

Pretty impressive for a 7 year old DAC, but not competitive anymore is my takeaway here.

It is very good for those times, even though Mola Mola Makua (same DAC as in Tambaqui) is older (2013/2014) and still measures better.

 

[KSTR]

That can be interpreted in many ways of course. No signal doesn't really make sense anyway, because that's never how you would listen to it. So testing zero's vs (more-or-less) full-scale output would be a preferable and more realistic method. Many DACs will have special things in place in case of no output to prevent things like pops during the transition to playing sound. They may influence the noise floor.

Good point.
"Zero Signal" for a noise floor measurement normally would be chosen to be a constant stream of dithering noise "silence" at the bit resolution the DAC is capable of, usually 24 bits.
This makes sure the DAC is actually operating... but it is not enough to prevent all possible tricks. For example, the Apple USB dongles have a detector that dims the output down by some 10dB when the signal level is lower than the last 4 bits or so. This makes a zero signal noise floor measurement invalid... and it spoils linearity tests as well.

For this DAC I would think we'd see no difference when using a 24bit dithered silence vs. a true zero signal but of course we don't know for sure. Same for the difference between any of the former vs. the USB driver idling (I would assume the actual DAC continues to run on the last selected sample rate and fed internally with zeros).

 

[Robbo99999]

So Rob responded on ad-fi,
We are now back to don’t trust science, measurements, anyone or anything, not even me just please get the Ka-ching Ka-ching >16000 dollar thing and trust your own ears in an uncontrolled setting, yeah right:

It’s almost like playing this video for someone and saying if you hear a difference I win 16000 from you.

View attachment 229124View attachment 229126

I'd quite like to see a reasoned debate/exchange between Amir & Rob on this topic. Not that I believe Rob in what he's saying there, because I don't, but I think it would be informative to view a reasoned debate/exchange between the two of them. It's a pity Rob hasn't come on here to try to describe & show the validity of his claims/products, but it's probably pretty clear why he hasn't......I don't think he can really prove the differences he thinks he hears and then correlate that with valid measurements that support. I would like to see a reasoned debate/exchange/conversation between the two of them though......free of hostilities. It's probably all moot though considering Amir's measurements in this thread show that one of his points is not valid - the noise floor modulation point, which sounded far-fetched from the get go to be honest.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Thank you so much….stinking liars…how in all of Gods creation am I supposed to even begin to know which guys are full of it…the audio world has us mear mortals by the cojones. Time to contribute again to this site which teaches us how tell the good hombres from the bad hombres.
.

 

[RichT]

great work Amir, I see that Topping and others offer sensational value. Can someone kindly tell me why I should pay $14000 for the Chord? Kind regards

 

[the_brunx]

I'd quite like to see a reasoned debate/exchange between Amir & Rob on this topic. Not that I believe Rob in what he's saying there, because I don't, but I think it would be informative to view a reasoned debate/exchange between the two of them. It's a pity Rob hasn't come on here to try to describe & show the validity of his claims/products, but it's probably pretty clear why he hasn't......I don't think he can really prove the differences he thinks he hears and then correlate that with valid measurements that support. I would like to see a reasoned debate/exchange/conversation between the two of them though......free of hostilities. It's probably all moot though considering Amir's measurements in this thread show that one of his points is not valid - the noise floor modulation point, which sounded far-fetched from the get go to be honest.

I think for the simple reason that Rob has almost nothing to gain but a whole lot to lose from such a public debate, it won’t be happening.

 

[Robbo99999]

I think for the simple reason that Rob has almost nothing to gain but a whole lot to lose from such a public debate, it won’t be happening.

I think it won't either

 

[irontortoise]

great work Amir, I see that Topping and others offer sensational value. Can someone kindly tell me why I should pay $14000 for the Chord? Kind regards

Conspicuous consumption? Paying for someone's 2-week vacation to see the Monte Carlo Grand Prix? You hate money?

 

[Billy Budapest]

With respect Amir, it's not off topic. You are reviewing and comparing a 7 year old Chord design with a brand new Topping product. The fact that you even can test that 7 year old product against the new Topping design speaks to the Chord's reliability wouldn't you say?

You say there are 'reliability issues reported' for Chord. What specific issues? Just how many dedicated threads and reports are there in relation 'reliability issues' with Chord products on ASR? I haven't seen one. Please point me a thread similar to the various long running thread/s for the 'other' brand we are not mentioning.

What's good for the goose is also good for the gander.

To further the fowl idiom, the measurements for both products are just gravy for the goose. Essentially, more of the same considering they are both below the threshold of human hearing.

Regarding reliability, a Topping could break twenty times, then be thrown out, and then repurchased twenty times to equal the cost outlay for one Chord Hugo TT2.

 

[Geert]

I'd quite like to see a reasoned debate/exchange between Amir & Rob on this topic.

Amir: The measurements don't support your claims Rob

Rob: Measurements don't tell the whole story Amir, you need to listen

Amir: When you listen, do you perform a double blind test?

Rob: No, that's to stressful Amir

Amir: Thanks for the interview Rob

 

[DonR]

Very interesting analysis indeed. High-end british Goliath beaten by chinese David. I wonder, reading this. These are sharp end measurements, right? In a broader sense could you give some credit to the Dave DAC over the Topping, apart from the Daves rather polarizing exteriors. Is there any credit to give? What do all those extra sterlings actually pay for. Is there some better volume control technology, or anything really. @amirm

If you happen to have elephants playing basketball in your living room, the Chord will more than likely survive. The Topping probably won't.

 

[Jimbob54]

If you happen to have elephants playing basketball in your living room, the Chord will more than likely survive. The Topping probably won't.

Got a reference for that? ;-)